Seriously, don't bullshit me.
Argozy, Phoenix, Virginia College, ITT, Corinthian College, Art Institute of Southeast Buttfuck Municipality, Bull$hit College This, Bull$hit College That....
So don't bullshit me. I know plenty of you must teach online classes for those bozo "colleges." Even if only for a little extra cash for that little coke-snortin' habit you've got.
Q. How much do they pay per course?
A. Or do they pay by the number of students enrolled? Or the number of students who pass? Or something else? Please explain that whole thing because I've got a hankerin' for some coke myself (or fancy diapers for the kid, or nice trinkets for the in-laws, or whatever....).
I believe the going price is 30 pieces of silver.
ReplyDeleteI teach online, but only for the regular, accredited, bricks-and-mortar state university at which I have a full-time job. So I'm paid as part of my salary -- or, during the summer, at the usual rate for summer classes.
ReplyDeleteBut I'd be curious to know, too, since the online-only institutions are at least one of my backup plans should my job disappear (and/or, the way our salaries are going, might be a necessary supplement to support my eating and/or my car's drinking habit(s)).
I don't need their money because I make my own.
ReplyDeleteI know someone who's teaching for one of them, don't know which, at $250/student.
ReplyDelete@Hellish:
ReplyDeleteThat's not bad. 20 student comp course for $5k. I wish I believed solely internet universities paid that much. But I don't. Is there a chance that your friend is fabricating a bit because s/he doesn't want to admit being paid $1500 for teaching a 40 student class? Which internet univeristy pays that much? I heard the rates at University of Phoenix were about $1600 a course, with no mention of how many students must be taught.
I'd pick up an extra course here and there at an internet university if they'd pay me that. And let me teach the class my way.
Both of which I highly doubt.
I'm still not really clear how the proffies "teach" online classes. I wouldn't mind sitting in my pajamas all day getting $250 per student. But the whole thing seems kind of bizarre. Do those course credits actually transfer anywhere? What do the students do? What do the proffies do? How does anybody verify that the people taking the exams are actually the registered students?
ReplyDelete@Bubba:
ReplyDeleteI taught in my pajamas this past summer, and I will teach in them again this summer. Also I have one online course this spring.
Online courses are absolutely not the equivalent of face-to-face courses, but this is the way that education is going, and I think it's better for the ft people at my university to take responsibility for the online courses (which are going to be offered nonetheless) rather than them being farmed out to who knows. If I could stop internet courses I would, but it's better they be taught by me than some unqualified and uninvested adjunct in Wyoming. There's already been some hanky panky with that as a result of our university's new online degree program, and it's scary what administrators seem to want to do.
As for what goes on, with a one-month course, what went on with me was assigning tons of reading and grading both discussion contributions and 6000 words of prose per student, with writing due every day M-F.
I couldn't really verify whether or not the student that was taking the class was actually doing the assignments, actually. All of the assignments were the equivalent of "take home" work. But that student would have to find someone willing to do the reading and do their work for them. Which is entirely possible in a face-to-face course as well.
I don't know. It's not perfect. But I don't know what else to do.
Totally out of thread: as of 7:55 12-17 the gender poll is running 26 F to 18 M....my "feminine vibe" is VINDICATED!
ReplyDelete....And that 7:55 is Pacific time.
ReplyDeleteBubba, I feel your pain. Let me give you the benefit of my poor friends' lives.
ReplyDeletePhoenix, Kaplan, and Walden pay about $1000 per month. Phoenix courses are 5 weeks and you get an assignment about every other five weeks for roughly $950 per course, $1100 for PhD. They give you a four month training program without pay. Kaplan has longer courses (6 weeks?) for $1200, $1400 for PhD. Walden is a full 15 week class, giving you about a grand a month (just over $4000 for the term). They assign every other semester.
There are some Department of Defense sponsored colleges ("Yellow Ribbon" universities) that pay more like $100 per student per course -- so you get $2000 per 20 student course with a new one starting every month (breaking down to about $24k a year) depending on the uni. New courses begin every week, but you're working 30 hr weeks.
Most of these people are not hiring right now. Some of the shill firms might be indicted soon, which is why so many of them are dumping people. If you want to work in online teaching, they usually hire in spring or summer. August is the biggest enrollment month of the year.
(It seems Strelnikov sees women as fundamentally different from men. Why can't they just be people? Do you want the chicks to shut up for awhile? Stop being a douche)
It's called humor...try it some time.
ReplyDeleteI earn roughly 2000-2500 per course. I am not paid per student or anything like that. My courses last 9 or 10 weeks, depending. The pay is comparable to the community colleges in this area. And I don't have to pay for parking or a bus pass.
ReplyDeleteI know some companies won't hire graduates from online schools, and other companies do. In the same way, it varies what credits are accepted and what are not.
I strive to provide my students with a quality education, as do my colleagues. I'm sure some of my fellow faculty members suck, but I understand that's common at most schools. The ones I talk to are dedicated to helping their students learn.
I take ongoing training to improve my classroom performance, learn about updates in things like APA, and learn about software enhancements.
I can't get a job anywhere else. If you have one for me, that'd be great. (Guess what, lots of people have higher degrees in the humanities, and no one told me that when I was in undergrad.)
For now, I get to enjoy using my degree and teaching (often in my jammies) and also enjoy paying my bills, paying off my loans, paying for food, paying rent, etc.
While I agree that "female" seems to outnumber "male," I would not be able to draw the conclusion that the blog is feminine. Although I know the proper way to get in and out of a car wearing a skirt, I also know how to tell people to fuck off in 4 different languages. Likewise, I know men who have taught me enormous amounts about the proper way to hold knitting needles.
ReplyDeleteWhat matters to me is that this is the only blog I try to check regularly because I can laugh and learn at the same time. There is a regular cast of characters that I genuinely like and would love to have an adult beverage with one evening. There are, of course, other that I would prefer not to meet -- especially in a dark alley. Although, Prissy as I may be, I can shoot a mean .380.
@Ophelia I'm often in my PJs until after my online grading is done. And yes, some days that means I'm not dressed until 2:30pm. But then, eat dress and research until drinking time.
ReplyDelete(The line "it's called humor" usually means "I don't know what to say." Unless what was said was actually funny -- in which case you wouldn't have to point out that it was humor.)
My current institution also has an online college. The base pay rate is the same, but the courses are accelerated so you're looking at $2500 every six weeks or so for a 4 credit course (before taxes, of course, and if you're out of state and paying state taxes twice, well, sucks to be you).
ReplyDeleteIt's not entirely bullshit. We have a video chat option which helps to prove that the student really IS the student (and to teach speech classes via, which I haven't done, but sounds interesting enough). The students actually have to do a TON more work to make up for "seat time" spent in the classroom. I often tutor students in online courses and they're working just as hard to learn the material as those in "real" courses, but again, they might be the exception rather than the rule.
The fact is a lot of our students don't have a "smarter" friend or family member to do the coursework for them. They might think they do (kids that are in high school, for instance), but high school level work isn't going to get them an A. I've dealt with plenty of on ground students who thought having their sister write an introduction would be a lovely idea, only to have me tell them their sister is a worse writer than they are.
Is it the same as face to face teaching? No, of course not. But can it be academically rigorous for a student who wants it to be and chooses the right school? Sure. Of course. And it might even pay well too.
a) that's because women have more to bitch about.
ReplyDeleteb) that's because men don't like to answer polls.
c) oh I give in, you're right as always, Strelnikov!
Huge Online Accredited Corporate University pays $120 per student and allows each adjunct a maximum of 200 students per year. Full time teaching staff get many more students, but at a lower rate per student plus some benefits. Classes range in size from one to 30+ students, start each month, and last eight weeks.
ReplyDeleteSouthern Bubba wrote,
ReplyDeleteI'm still not really clear how the proffies "teach" online classes. I wouldn't mind sitting in my pajamas all day getting $250 per student. But the whole thing seems kind of bizarre. Do those course credits actually transfer anywhere? What do the students do? What do the proffies do? How does anybody verify that the people taking the exams are actually the registered students?
Well, for $250 per student I would be VERY happy. I would actually be in the middle class.
As for the rest, the potential anonymity of the student is indeed a problem. But generally, I think the system is working. Sure, there are probably some shadow scholars in the classroom. But overall I don't think there are many.
The work is rigorous. Papers are just like anywhere else. Lectures are video, text, audio, powerpoint with audio, etc. - depends on the university's mandates and professor taste. Or have no "lectures" but really discuss the reading and have your ideas come through in the discussion.
Discussions are a-synchronous online forums. Results vary. They can be BS, bluffing, vacuous and slow-paced (but they can live as well). Or they can be very time-consuming, thoughtful, rigorous and a real hoot. The advantages are the writing practice and that you really can check and insure participation, you can keep all the threads of a conversation going simultaneously, and you can look things up as you go, post links, insert quotes, etc. Nice. The disadvantages, aside from the obvious "shadow scholar" element, include the lack of personal engagement, the lack of any dire need to prepare in advance (since you can look things up as you go!), and the ability of students to ignore anything being said by classmates or by the prof when s/he isn't "talking" directly to them. Rules making them respond to classmates sometimes work, but not always.
I have been doing it for years. At the end of the day, it is more time consuming than face-to-face classes and ultimately less satisfying. People differ as to whether the students learn more. I think they generally learn less, but not always and not as much less as detractors seem to think.
Yes, the credits transfer (at least at my school they do). We are accredited. I have people in my classes all the time who are enrolled somewhere else and transfer the credits from my school to fully-accredited state schools, for example. Or students who get G.I. Bill money or other finanical aid programs only for accredited coursework. They do fine with us.
Southern Bubba wrote,
ReplyDeleteI'm still not really clear how the proffies "teach" online classes. I wouldn't mind sitting in my pajamas all day getting $250 per student. But the whole thing seems kind of bizarre. Do those course credits actually transfer anywhere? What do the students do? What do the proffies do? How does anybody verify that the people taking the exams are actually the registered students?
Well, for $250 per student I would be VERY happy. I would actually be in the middle class.
As for the rest, the potential anonymity of the student is indeed a problem. But generally, I think the system is working. Sure, there are probably some shadow scholars in the classroom. But overall I don't think there are many.
The work is rigorous. Papers are just like anywhere else. Lectures are video, text, audio, powerpoint with audio, etc. - depends on the university's mandates and professor taste. Or have no "lectures" but really discuss the reading and have your ideas come through in the discussion.
Discussions are a-synchronous online forums. Results vary. They can be BS, bluffing, vacuous and slow-paced (but they can live as well). Or they can be very time-consuming, thoughtful, rigorous and a real hoot. The advantages are the writing practice and that you really can check and insure participation, you can keep all the threads of a conversation going simultaneously, and you can look things up as you go, post links, insert quotes, etc. Nice. The disadvantages, aside from the obvious "shadow scholar" element, include the lack of personal engagement, the lack of any dire need to prepare in advance (since you can look things up as you go!), and the ability of students to ignore anything being said by classmates or by the prof when s/he isn't "talking" directly to them. Rules making them respond to classmates sometimes work, but not always.
...
...continued...
ReplyDeleteI have been doing it for years. At the end of the day, it is more time consuming than face-to-face classes and ultimately less satisfying. People differ as to whether the students learn more. I think they generally learn less, but not always and not as much less as detractors seem to think.
Yes, the credits transfer (at least at my school they do). We are accredited. I have people in my classes all the time who are enrolled somewhere else and transfer the credits from my school to fully-accredited state schools, for example. Or students who get G.I. Bill money or other finanical aid programs only for accredited coursework. They do fine with us.
A while back a friend asked me if I'd like to teach at one of the online "U's" and the gig went like this:
ReplyDeleteI would be given a "shell" that had basically everything in it already, every discussion, assignment, the exams, the syllabus. Everything. Then, I'd have to hold a certain amount of "live" class time, ie synchronous discussion time, per week. And I had to answer five discussion posts per non synchronous discussion. And I had to return exams within 24 hours, but they were all short answer or multiple choice (for a literature class). The program pretty much corrected them for you. One short essay (2-3 pages) had to be returned within 48 hours. It is really not much work at all, considering. The pay was 1200 or so but for a shorter time (I think 7 weeks?). So I could pick up some great cash on the side for hardly doing anything. The courses run one after another all year or something pretty close to that.
I even went so far as to take a look at the shell. I could not do it. I am not hungry enough right now for those 30 pieces of silver. The whole thing was bullshit.
HOWEVER, I do teach online for my home college, Inner City Community College. And I use Blackboard, and I like to think I am rigorous and engaging and that my students can get a lot out of it. As My Little Proffie says, the online experience can be very fulfilling for the right student and when done in the right way.
I just read Adjunct Slave's post and I want to add that the situation is obviously very different from institution to institution. What I meant was that the situation I was looking at was complete bullshit, but not that every online university is bullshit.
ReplyDeleteSeriously, I do not understand all of the snark hurled at online education.
ReplyDeleteI have earned degrees both on campus and online.
I have taught classes on campus and online.
No, they are not exactly the same.
But on campus is most certainly not inherently better -- or worse -- just different.
For all of you knashing your teeth about the identities of online students, are you checking the IDs of your on campus students? Taking DNA samples? Can you even NAME all of your campus based students?
The time/effort investment for the shadow student would be immense in either venue.
To the Benjamins,
The online programs I have taught at paid:
> private campus uni $1,250/8 wk class (capped @ 20 students)
> state campus uni up to $2,500/13 wk class (based on increments of 5 students plus a longevity premium - mine not theirs)
> private online uni $3,050/12 wk graduate class (capped @ 20 students)
The current on campus program I teach at pays:
> private campus SLAC $2,280/15 wk class (capped @ 25 students)
These are all regionally accredited institutions so their credits are just as transferable as Backwater U.
Also, for giggles, the state uni and private online grad school both offered benefits packages. Teaching 2 classes in the fall and spring, I have been receiving the same benefits package as workers in my state including full health, dental, vision coverage and pension. The private online grad school's health coverage isn't as appealing, but I am in their 401k.
(The only benefit they cannot figure out is how to translate sick and vacation time.)
My SLAC students were SO disengaged that next term, I will be instituting a mandatory participation requirement. They took a midterm and final delivered through a major commercial course management system and the grades spread through the bell curve as one would expect for a paper-and-pencil administration. (Seriously, I almost wish they WOULD cheat; it would improve the passing percentage.)
As for doing work in your PJs for online programs, yup, you can. In fact, you pretty much must as you will be working into the wee hours grading EVERYthing they do.
Instead of napping/texting/chatting/Web surfing in the back of the classroom, generally, they must post a mini research paper (think open book essay exam) every week of the term PLUS either quizzes/tests and/or full research papers.
Ophelia, my online compatriot - Semper opera!
Adjunct Slave pretty much summed up my experience in the online business. I used to be a tenured full-time face-to-face prof and had wonderful and horrible interactions face-to-face. Howver, they were much more personally satisfying and more authentic learning environments. I couldn't continue the face to face for health reasons and have ended up purely online. Things have definitely
ReplyDeleteContinued...
ReplyDeleteimproved over the last several years as far as online materials, but cheating and apathy are still major problems (it's just easier online) . Rudeness in communication, which has been dealt with on this site before, is also a major issue. But, my biggest concern is the move to put science coursse AND LABS online because it's a helluva lot cheaper for the university. Administrators think virtual tours and virtual experiments are fabulous; science teachers know they are a poor substitute for the real thing.
My student limit at one university also gets tinkered with. Although I am paid a base rate for a certain number of students and then more for each above it, one U thinks nothing of a "limit" of a 100 for a science or math class. After all, you're not constrained by room or lab space. The quality of the student's experience or education in this type of environment is the last thing on these admins minds. And this, unfortunately, is the wave of the future. Labs are expensive and potentially dangerous places.
All I can do is try to make the online environment as rigorous and stimulating as possible. I use YouTube, PowerPoint, Discussions, hands on labs (they have to build or make something in order to complete it), etc. What that means is I do end up spending MORE time getting things to work in an online environment with much less satisfaction due to lack orf human interaction and muting of personality. Wish I could go back to face-to-face....
My online uni uses online articles, a textbook, and a series of videos and movies to recreate the classroom environment. There is nothing sychronous. I grade their submissions on a daily basis (they might have 3 assignments per week) but these assignments are between 200 words and 2 pages. Short essays or discussion posts. I scan, grade, give feedback.
ReplyDeleteThey watch the video of a Brown prof lecturing, then read the chapter of the book and write a paragraph on how those interpretations differ. Then they read a series of online articles on a different subject and write a short comparison/contrast paper or an essay generalization about these two topics.
It's not the same level of quality education as my f2f course. But it's not the same level university. I think I would find similar assignments on "feelings" and "opinions" teaching gen ed at a community college, where the point is less about research and more about prepping basic communication skills.
Prof, that's scary. I do not want a pathologist, pharmacist, or whomever learned their trade via virtual labs reading my labs, mixing my compounds, or whatever.
ReplyDeleteMarcia,
ReplyDeleteThe way around that is to require kitchen chemistry experiments. There are kits available, or you can use any of a number of books written for the general reader as a source.
I've done that (for general-education only!), requiring students to submit lab worksheets with questions, and pictures. It's pretty easy to tell when someone isn't actually doing the lab work, and they get slam-dunked for it.
Hi, I am the one non-academic who reads this to get a better understanding of the college world. Think of me as the funding source for one undergrad.
ReplyDeleteMy daughter took two online courses (at public flagship U) institution. If you go online, the grad students/teaching union (whatever they call it) has their contract which spells out what they get for teaching. Seemed to me pretty close for online as bricks and mortar. After listening to my daughter discuss with friends, the online seemed pretty close to bricks and mortar. btw, for any quantitative courses, at this school, finals must be taken in proctored environment. Non-quant, online professors did threaten to use turnitin, etc, so I assume they have same resources as bricks and mortar.
One of the younger guys who works for me took a class at Phoenix. Unusual situation, this guy had a Bachelors and a Law Degree, but was missing one accounting course to sit for CPA exam. Phonenix accomodated his schedule. No proctoring, etc, even though as I understand federal law now requires online courses to take steps to prevent cheating. This kid was highly motivated, as he was of the belief that the material was related to CPA exam.
After listening to both of them as to their experiences I was left with the impression that the public U on line classes were worth the money. Yes, it would have been better if Daughter could have taken summer courses in person, but that couldnt happen. As to Phoenix, I think they are one step above self study.
I am livid that the accredidation agencies do not crack down on Phoenix.
Apologies to all for spelling, typos, and not knowing exact terminology.
As somebody who grew up in the Outlying Areas of East Jesus Nowhere, I can definitely see the virtues of distance learning for students who for a variety of reasons can't get to a brick-and-mortar school.
ReplyDeleteNext [academic] year, it seems that a job online somewhere could buy me three months of health insurance + actually pay my deductibles and prescription co-pays. Having a small coke habit would actually be potentially less expensive. (Sometimes I think that coke might be a good solution for me, actually.)
I take occasional courses with the Open University, a distance-only provider in the UK (and beyond). The quality of the materials and the teaching is excellent, and I think its a great model for non-traditional students. But it would be SO MUCH WORK to do something this well from scratch, and so tempting to economise...
ReplyDeleteI just thought I'd also mention that I asked my friend who teaches at said online instituion (as well as works full time---but not as a professor---at Inner City Community College) how often she does it. She teaches three at a time all year. That's 3600 bucks every seven weeks all year long.
ReplyDeleteBut apparently they are no longer hiring at the moment. She said that will probably change. It's a pretty big name outfit. If anyone is interested in doing it, just follow your nose and you'll find it eventually.
@introvert
ReplyDeleteYes, doing hands on with at home kits or purchsed kits is useful, but they still are not exposed to mixing acids or using a bunsen burner or anything in depth. Kitchen experiments equate to 6th grade science such as baking soda and vinegar. This is definitely better than purely virtual, but still no replacement for being IN a lab or out in the field with an experienced instructor doing advanced experiments and experiencing the true lab environment.
I've done answer sheets with pics also, and I'm glad others like you do, too. These are labor intensive and often take forever to download. After grading 50 of these, I'm ready to go virtual myself!
Even using question sheets, if they are the same from semester to semester, they could submit someone elses answer sheet without actually doing the experiments. Students could work together (which is fine) but with no actual monitoring, one student could do all the work and others observe and never get the experience. In a lab environment, I would physically monitor students to be sure these things didn't occur.
Hands-on requires more work from the instructor as well. If an instructor is given 50 students, and has a choice of doing a hands-on instructor-graded experiment or a computer generated, auto graded experiment, which is more attractrive?
@Marcia.
Most advanced science degrees are still going to require some kind of training which at some point is going to be in a lab or real world environment. However, it is still worrisome that regular students are getting further and further removed from the rigors of scientific work. I really don't understand how a teacher is going to teach science even to very young students without really knowing what its like to be in a lab. Science without experiments is not nearly as much fun, either!
@Blackdog
I have been fortunate to have this opportunity to continue to teach. And online work was originally designed for folks just like you who couldn't get to a brick and mortar. It's just being applied as a replacement to face-to-face for everyone. Many seem to think that online (for a student) is easier and more convenient. NOT!
And finally, proctored exams are a great thing until you have students in other countries and flung across the U.S. If I chose to do that, I would then be responsible for coordinating all these testing environments. I've had students from Afghanistan to North Dakota. As a part-timer at a relatively small Community U, there are simply not the resources or personnel for someone else to do that. I'm dedicated, but that's a bit much!
Long-winded P and C logging off...