Note: The short selection from the Billie Hara article "Disruptive Student Behavior" is not any part of CollegeMisery.com. One of our writers merely commented on it and linked it so others could read it. Hara's article is from the ProfHacker blog, which is associated with the Chronicle of Higher Education.
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Darla wrote: Good grief. Two different colleagues forwarded this link to me today. I'll just post some flava, and then if you want to totally be annoyed, click through to the rest. Guess who she's talking about in point #2.
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| from Hara's website. |
By Billie Hara
As higher education professionals, we have conversations with friends and colleagues about our students. We’ve all done it. The conversations can include how engaged students are with course material, how interesting classes can be when students participate, or maybe we’ve passed along a particularly funny exchange with students. We love what we do, and we want to share that joy. But then there are the other experiences, experiences we don’t readily share because we don’t quite know how to handle them. Or, we don’t share them because we don’t want our colleagues and friends to know that we can’t handle the situations. That’s what ProfHacker’s “Disruptive Student Behavior” is all about: it gives us a space to discuss—calmly, respectfully, and sometimes anonymously—how to handle difficult situations with students.
This series has a few caveats:
- In this series, we will present a few scenarios, and it’s clear that how we handle these scenarios depends upon the discipline, the class size, and the culture of an institution. We try to include as many of these variables as we can, while understanding that we can’t account for every situational difference. What we are discussing here are behaviors that—no matter the discipline or the institutional culture—impede learning for other students.
- ProfHacker is not a place to complain about students in any mean-spirited sort of way. That is not what this series of posts attempts. Instead, we want to focus on what we can do, positively and professionally, to handle the sometimes-difficult situations we can have with students.

Hey! We're not mean spirited!
ReplyDeleteIt's not our fault that some students are total fucking flakes who don't want any new information to enter their precious soft skulls...
(also, am I the only one who says "fuck" around here anymore?)
My response to the "let's not be mean-spirited" was "fuck that noise". So, no.
DeleteMy love of compound swear words and I were out of town.
DeleteBy way of apology, I give you: http://beautifulswearwords.com/tagged/Fuck
Fuck no! And ^^^ is awesome. I'm making a color printout of "fuckup."
DeleteI see your fuck and raise you a tea party.
DeleteFuck no.
ReplyDeleteI taught with Billie a few years back when I was at Texas Wesleyan. She's a good enough egg, but this sort of "we're all going to be professionals and figure these darn kids out" is past its expiration date.
ReplyDeleteThen tell her she's making a fool of herself in public.
DeletePast its expiration date! It's passed on! This concept is no more! It has ceased to be! It's expired and gone to meet its maker!
DeleteIt's a stiff! Bereft of life, it rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed it to the perch it'd be pushing up the daisies!
It's metabolic processes are now history! It's off the twig!
It's kicked the bucket, it's shuffled off it's mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleeding choir invisible!!
THIS IS AN EX-CONCEPT!!
But what flavour is it?
Delete@Pat: That was brilliant. I laughed til I cried and then read it to my hubby and laughed some more.
Deletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vuW6tQ0218
DeleteI'm positively and professionally annoyed by ProfYackers.
ReplyDeleteWhat were the chances
ReplyDeletethat a cat photo
would accompany
the article?
Fairly good, I'd think.
Fuck.
ReplyDeleteFuckity-fuck.
ReplyDeleteFugno.
ReplyDeleteWhew, for a minute there I thought that was a photo of Darla. I'm so glad it's not.
And now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to HURL.
HARFyorkGLAAAARRRRGGGHHH!!!!
I just came from a talk about student-centered learning/peer instruction in physics, delivered in lecture format of course, in which the presenter told us with a straight face that we'd need to spend ten extra hours on setting up demos per hour of class, and a student addressed me by my last name only. Jesu Christu Herrgott im Himmel, the end is nigh. Frankly, folks, complaining about students in a mean-spirited way isn't just a warranted response, it's a long-overdue one.
Geez, Frod, don't hold back. Tell us what you really think of Eric Mazur.
DeleteEric Mazur should be exposed, in a refereed journal, for the intellectually dishonest, data-cooking charlatan that he is. This wouldn't be as satisfying as burning him at the stake, but it'd be enough.
DeleteReminds me of Meehl's quote:
Delete"a potent but sterile intellectual rake who leaves in his merry path a long train of ravished maidens but no viable scientific offspring".
Fucking shit. I get the ProfHacker emails and I wonder if they are actually interacting with students or just spewing that huggy-huggy shit to their TAs.
ReplyDeleteI propose we start our own student behavior series called: "Grow the Fuck Up or Get a Boot Up Your Ass"
I used to wear a suit and tie until the dean said I was an example of a teacher showing the correct attitude in a student centric consumer model. Fuck. Now he's lucky if I wear pants.
ReplyDeleteI would have thought a visor, a polo shirt with the university's logo, and polyester pants would have been a more appropriate outfit.
DeleteSB, quit teasing about how you teach in drag and write me a post about it.
DeleteFuck, SB, I just got blue and green stripes put in my hair simply and solely to fuck with the "student centric consumer model". Or more precisely to expand their notion of what a professor looks like. THIS is what a professor looks like, snowflake; now fuck off.
DeleteI like the "variations on fuck" thread, but I still think Frod gets the prize for the most colorful swearing. German always helps.
ReplyDeleteAnd Pat clearly gets the prize for the best allusion to the classics.
As for Profhacker, I do actually get some useful information and ideas, mostly about technology, from it now and then, but all too often reading it just makes me feel tired. Very, very tired.
Prof Billie's absolutely correct--disruptive/entitled students need to be "reached." They need to be prioritized. We need to examine our own thinking and behavior and find it within ourselves to best meet their needs. They are like children--like at-risk youth--not privileged adults with responsibilities and consequences. They should be treated like children who need to be accommodated, reached, and assisted.
ReplyDeleteUntil evaluation time. Then they are not children anymore, but full-fledged adults perfectly capable of offering well-reasoned critiques of our pedagogical practices.
Jesus H Christ on a Yugoslavian water buffalo (Matt Ruff, Fool on the Hill).
ReplyDeleteI wish I could say that this shit is just in the Crampicle, but it's not. I have been taken to task *multiple* times over the past several years for calling 'em like I see 'em. No, no--they say. You have to keep trying to reach them, what are you doing to try to reach them? You mean, besides teaching Science Fiction? Let's see: reading and discussion questions, small group work in place of straight-up discussion (because let's face it, 90% of the little fucks WILL.NOT.READ. no matter what I do, short of giving quizzes daily, which I then have to fucking grade, half of which would be fucking Fs anyway). Choosing readings and films (about food, industrial agriculture, the fucking future of human life on this planet) that I find engaging. What more do you fucking want from me? I want to scream.
Shit like this is one of many reasons I am looking for work outside the academy. To quote my favorite mad genius bar none, Tom Waits:
"The ship is sinking. The ship is sinking.
There's a leak, there's a leak in the boiler room
The poor, the lame, the blind
Who are the ones that we kept in charge?
Killers, thieves, and lawyers
God's away, God's away, God's away on business..."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9mhsW5aWJM
rather than grading why don't you put those quizzes on Bb or it's equivalent so they are graded for you?
Delete^^ Because we'll all cheat our asses off if it's done online. WebAssign and WileyPlus were a great sport to game.
DeleteFrill
ReplyDeleteFrack that
ReplyDeleteI have found my people tonight.
ReplyDeletei mean, FUCK.
Hmmm...removing both my earlier polite request that you remove the manipulated phoograph of Dr. Hara and then thanking you for changing it seems a bit cowardly for a group that exists to attack others. I've been arguing elsewhere that you all are likely decent people rather than petty, mean-spirited cowards. Changing the photo was helping me make my case. Removing my earlier comments to hide the criticism of a group that exists to criticize others had undermined my ability to defend you all. If you're willing to subject others to harsh, public critique, maybe you should, from the saftey of pseudonmity, take your lumps when deserved? If nothing else, it would improve your ethos.
ReplyDeleteYou're right, John. We're sorry. We thought that the issue had been resolved and that the comments likely didn't need to stay, since they're off the topic of the post. (One of the blog's rules.)
ReplyDeleteBut to be fair, John said our photo (which was modified much in the way all images are on CM) was bad. We replaced it. He thanked us.
Also, pages this far back on our blog never get read, so we did not think the changes needed to be noted.
Because this post specifically goes after and names an adjunct who is not protected by 1) anonymity or pseudonymity or 2) a tenure-track positon or tenure itself, it is being read today by people who are surprised by such public shaming. Changing the photo is a start because the blood-splatter like paint shots was disturbing. But this post in particular is making the rounds in discussions of anonymous/pseudonymous attacks on adjuncts who are named directly and are not allowed the protection of anonymity.
ReplyDeleteThis is a link to a post that Hara published under her name on a Chronicle of Higher Education blog.
ReplyDeleteShe also posted it on her Twitter account, and it's been linked to by other academic blogs as well.
If she intended it to have the "protection of anyonymity," she did not do it correctly.
Is it April Fool's Day already?
DeleteThis has to be a put on. Nobody is this fucking stupid. Wait, academics. Hold on. Okay, I may be wrong.
Dear Nelf and John,
ReplyDeleteThank you for coming by. I don't actually think either of you know what this blog is about.
Best wishes,
Wisconsin Will
I used to think I'd seen it all, academics without a clue. But now I have seen it all. Tone deaf. Tone deaf times two.
ReplyDeletePS: Smooches to Yaro...my first great love on CM. (You, too, Fab, you scoundrel.)
This is too dumb. Even for the Chronicle.
ReplyDeleteWho are we attacking today? I missed the memo.
ReplyDeleteDear God,
ReplyDeleteIt's Dick.
Please forgive them.
Amen.
It's like trying to show a dog how to use a can opener. A dumb dog.
ReplyDeleteAll of these "comments" are written by the same person. Nobody could make up a name like Elf Highsberg or Dick Tingle.
ReplyDeleteThe page is dead again.
Uh, what? If nobody could make up these names, who/what is the person who is making up the names and writing the comments? Dark matter?
DeleteI like being Dark Matter. That would make a really cool moniker, don't you think?
DeleteThis was a fun read. I love me some comments.
ReplyDeleteI commented earlier when this post first appeared. I taught with Billie Hara. She's not a bad person. But the tenor of her posts on this "disruptive students" series is just silly. If the notes about her post seem like an attack, I feel it's an attack on that particular method of managing students and not on her at all.
ReplyDelete@Nels: the problem with the "attack on an adjunct" argument is that one has to google Hara to figure out that she's an adjunct. In this case, I think the attack had more to do with her association with a powerful institution that sometimes seems to be fiddling while Rome burns, if not outright aiding and abetting the attackers: the publication fondly known here (and referred to in Darla's title) as the "Crampicle."
ReplyDeleteAs you'll probably guess from my name, I'm all for calling attention to the plight of, and otherwise protecting, adjuncts. And I agree that the picture may have been a bit mean (though I read those starburst thingies as flowers or "bling" or some other decoration suggesting Hara's extremely optimistic outlook; if you look back at the graphics here, I think you'll find an ongoing visual theme making that association). I think we just spend a bit more time here than the folks at Profhacker do engaging in critique -- sometimes individual, but often also systemic (see Darla's post below, and the replies).
Fuckity doo-dah. I am here to take my lumps. Two, please, with tea and cream.
ReplyDeleteI bet Nelf and John reposted the shit out of the Kony 2012 video, too. Try to follow along, guys. This was a link to an article in which the said dumbass adjunct outed herself. All we did was poke it with sticks.
ReplyDeletehi WhatLadder! It's awesome to see a full professor like you taking the time for bullshit like this. Seriously--you've been a big help today.
DeleteWow, are we mean-spirited? On my best days I just HOPE to be mean-spirited. I aspire to mean-spiritedness.
ReplyDeleteReading the Chronicle gets me there on wings, of course.
Actually, my concern was with the manipulated photo, a concern which the moderators of this site did agree as they took it down and replaced it. Who ever did that did the right thing.
ReplyDeleteYou all want to snark? Fine, although I suggest you look at a serious snark site like Regretsy. They could teach you something about snarky and wit. Especially WhatLadder. And, really, if you're going to troll the internet, you ought to let trolls troll you, especially as you play behind pseudonymity. I mean, after all, how do you know that the trolls aren't actual members with a second or third or fourth account. As I said, if you want to play snark, take off the water wings and try the adult pool.
As the moderator I monitor all IP addresses. On very rare occasions I've stopped people from using multiple logins.
DeleteBut thank you for the tips.
Very little of our content is about other posts that appear, so we don't troll the internet as a normal part of our process, but the ridiculous Chronicle blogs do pop up from time to time because it's almost unfathomable that some of that shit is written by someone who actually teaches for a living.
DeleteNearly all of our material is created by a loose group of about 85 writers who very occasionally post whatever is bugging them about jobs that we all love. We call it "venting the spleen."
We know we're a sub-niche of a sub-niche. We only get about 7000-9000 hits a day, but we enjoy sharing our misery.
When the page gets seen by people outside the group, it usually results in the stuff you brought to us. We're cowards. Okay. If that's the worst thing we are, fine.
We're pseudonymous - actually we all aren't, there are a couple of major figures here who everyone knows - because many of our writers are in contingent, part-time, non-tenure, and/or tenure track positions. And some of us would rather privately bitch about our colleague who steaks our research, parking spot, or in one grand scheme, our spouse.
I always try to be as welcoming of new folks as possible, John, but I also like to assert what we are and what we aren't.
The RGM
Oh, and John, we manipulate most of the photos that appear. Since this page existed as Rate Your Students from 2006-2010, it's been a bit of a running joke that we only use bad graphics. Our graphic person didn't attempt to do anything untoward to Hara's photo. It's simply the "fresco" Photoshop plugin with the addition of three stars.
DeleteBut I saw your initial note and reviewed it and realized that since it was a real person (and not just some stand-in for a professor or student), we could have been more sensitive. I thanked you once for this, and will do so again.
Um, John? You're making a fool of yourself, much like Billie Hara did in her original article. This is precisely why we found it so funny, and why we're giggling at you now.
DeleteP.S. Fuck.
Thanks, RGM, for taking all the flak. You try to do something nice and STILL get criticized. Sheesh. Sounds like John belongs on this blog with the rest of us temperamentals... and for the record, using "John" as a moniker might as well be anonymous.
DeleteHey John, thanks for the driveby advice. The opinions of somebody who apparently hasn't read much of CM mean a great deal to us. I'm sure the feeling is mutual so let me return the favor. Go fuck yourself.
DeleteWe could try harder and do better. The downside is that fucktards like you would frequent us more often. Now, run along.
Shit John, as others have said in one way or another, get with the fucking program if you're going to post on this site. Even though it is not worded in the CM Rules as such, Rule 1) It is about spreading the misery; Rule 2) If you don't like the spreading of said misery, then Fuck Off and find another blog to bother, because there's a whole big wide world out there to annoy other than us. Jesus H Christ, with pseudonyms like Sarcastic Bastard and Southern Bubba PhD, do you really think we're all about serious and high-falutin' discourse? We deal with enough of that shite during our day jobs.
DeleteActually, in the initial discussion in the other forum, I specifically brought up the issue of this being its own community and the problems of drive-by posting. That said, I did find the unnecessarily personalization of the attack unwarranted and I do commend the moderators for acting to rectify that. You are right, Beaker Ben, it is your pool and I'll be gone soon. Wade all you like. Pseudonymity suits you.
DeleteAnd Contemplative Cynic, checking my profile will take you directly to my actual identity, warts and all. Nothing anonymous or pseudonymous about me.
Granted, Regretsy is pretty hilarious. Helen/April writes some quality snark, which is not unexpected, with comedy being her career and all.
DeleteThe comments section can be a zoo though. I really wouldn't compare it to the CM community, miserable and mean-spirited as it is. ;)
Hmm. That came across a little too strong. I feel like we got off to a bad start. I'll grant you that we can get a little ornery around here, myself especially. It was the Diet Coke talking. I take back one of the swear words. Just to be gracious to my guest, I'll let you pick.
DeleteBeaker Ben, Diet Coke has been the undoing of many a man.
DeleteI'd like to think I have helped. But that is another story for another case of Jaegermeister.
Matilda, I believe John was pointing out that this site cannot be compared with Regretsy. And therein lies the tragedy.
Perhaps this training video will offer enlightenment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXIwyGFP5gM
That's a natural fact.
DeleteA link to this post came across the adjunct listserv at my university. One of my comrades found it upsetting that an adjunct, in his words, "is trying to make a job where we regularly struggle without support or security easier." Whatever. This is why I don't read blogs.
ReplyDeleteHey, I read an article in the New York Times that also appeared on your site. The NYT version was longer - you just wrote the first could of paragraphs for CM and then you had one of those blue internet linky things after it. I don't know how those work since my secretary prints my news off the computer screen and I read it later. If CM is going to write articles that appear in the New York Times, you should just post the whole thing here instead.
ReplyDeleteHoly God Ben, Warn me to put down the G&T before you bust out with the funny!
DeleteWhite dude + ponytail = serious irony deficit. Also: fuckapalooza.
ReplyDeleteyou were the 69th comment, Frog. how apropos.
DeleteI was thinking the same thing - as if could I avoid it knowing Darla's sweet ass avatar picture. Even with unlimited internet porn, that was still titillating.
DeleteI wear white tee-shirts rather than black turtle necks. It's subtle irony, but it it runs deep.
DeleteAlso, not to out fuck you all or anything, but why fuck in seclusion when you can go big and public: Nothing says it better than a whole page of fuck."
oooo John you can out-fuck me any day.
DeleteFuck.
ReplyDeleteOnce more, with feeling:
ReplyDeletehttp://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_lo0a8tMGYZ1qll5b7o1_1280.gif?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJ6IHWSU3BX3X7X3Q&Expires=1331783828&Signature=9JHoxmkvEqUE1TkwpZU9MjcRQls%3D
Jesus Christ.
ReplyDeleteWhy in the hell are you all spending so much time picking on another teacher?
Is she really making your life more miserable? Really?
No matter how much fun it is to fantasize about what we would LIKE to say to students who act like assholes in class, the truth for many of us is that we are untenured, untenure track, graduate students, or whatever, and WE CAN'T. We have to find ways around that situation that ultimately benefit us and the student because not doing so will cost us our jobs.
WE NEED to have conversations not only like the ones that happen here, but the more politically correct ones that happen on listservs and the ProfHacker site as well.
And well here, let's get personal.
I joined this site to write about the absolute insanity that was coming at me from administration and assessment at two different schools at the same time. It was suggested at my place of employment that my clothes were too tight because panty lines were visible, and I would have to change that if I wanted to keep my job. I bawled my eyes out and bought a bunch of thongs. I planned a major national conference and then was told I didn't, and that a professor had. The work of graduate students was ignored.
But I'm not going to participate in the tearing down of professors like Billie, especially since she is my friend. I resigned when the first article popped up, and I can't even believe the shitstorm it has since generated.
You know what? There's some seriously fucked up shit going on in academia and her article IS NOT IT. God, if this was the worse thing that was happening in colleges across America right now--can you imagine that?
Now get back to posting some REAL misery. Jesus.
I personally have declare this National Adjunct Thong Day (not that you are an adjunct, Proffie, but i sure as fuck am). SISTERHOOD IS POWERTOOLS. OR SOMETHING.
Delete*goes upstairs to change*
and also: Brava.
DeleteFair enough, MLP. She is not the problem, at all; she is very much one of the victims of the problem.
ReplyDeleteThis blog, and the stuff in ProfHacker, are both (as you say) responses to the problem, which is, that very many people in our profession are being treated like snap-in tools. And if we break, who gives a fuck? Not our employers.
And this is not what we thought we were signing up for.
But I still think it's okay to object to the well-meaning crap on ProfHacker. It was not a personal attack. The mere fact that your friend posted her real name as the author doesn't make it a personal attack. If we didn't complain about sanctimonious bullshit we wouldn't have anything to talk about around here.
Also, fuck.
"snap-in tools" is now going on my CV. Merely Academic, that is gold.
ReplyDelete