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| Weekend Twin Thirsty! Thank you; I'll have another! |
Q2: And if they do sign it, and everything including the date and their student ID number is illegible and they insist that their handwriting is that way, or they just refuse to sign, what then? Yeah, suppose they refuse to cooperate...?
A: Be specific dammit!
What are you talking about? Having a student sign the syllabus like a contract?
ReplyDeleteWholly unnecessary and desperate, regardless of whether the request is made by instructor, chair, or Dean.
Going to have to agree with Hiram on this one. I can understand signing an honor code upon entry to the college, but signing the syllabus? That does seem "unnecessary and desperate."
DeleteProbably unnecessary, but I've tried having students sign an Academic Honesty statement (mostly in composition classes) the first day. I don't think it had much effect, but perhaps it indicated a higher-than-normal level of paranoia on my part and thereby discouraged one or two plagiarists? Signing the syllabus might have a similarly small but real effect. Dunno.
ReplyDeleteI have a few colleagues in other departments who ask students to sign the syllabus, but it's always seemed like a rather pointless exercise to me. The university rules are available for all of them to read at any time, and the requirements of my course are clearly outlined in the syllabus; if they don't familiarize themselves with this material, then it's their fault. I'm not putting up with any of that, "But I didn't knooooooooooow!!!!" caterwauling that is so often the result of being penalized for failing to follow the rules.
ReplyDeletecaterwauling - never heard that word before. I like it!
DeleteI put a statement at the bottom of the syllabus that says that by enrolling in the class they agree to my rules and policies. I think that's enough.
ReplyDeleteI like that! Might have to add language about student responsibility for deadlines....
DeleteI think I remember Frod saying he has a similar notice at the very end of his monster syllabus.
DeleteI do what Harpy does too. Then when they argue I point to that line.
DeleteIsn't there case law somewhere that says you can't force someone into an agreement in this asterisk-at-the-bottom way? Otherwise every walmart would have a sign on the door saying "by entering you can't sue us for anything that happens inside".
DeleteThat can't be true, because I've seen all kinds of signs like that at swimming pools, on websites, etc.
DeleteActually, I can't even believe we're arguing about this. Students who don't like the policies can and should drop the class.
Didn't our moderator ask people not to use "anonymous" in their moniker?
I've never had students sign the syllabus. I have them sign a form for FERPA (our SLAC requires this) saying I can distribute their homework back to them in a public manner (i.e. passing it down the rows in the classroom, rather than handing it to them individually).
ReplyDeleteDoes your school require this? Isn't the syllabus already enforced by its simply existence?
I don't do this, and lean slightly in the direction of feeling that it undermines your authority/the authority of the syllabus a bit. But I know people who do (or who give a syllabus quiz), and don't see anything major wrong with it. I'm just of the treating-them-like-adults-and-expecting-them-to-act-like-adults camp (which sometimes works and sometimes doesn't, including with adults over the age of 25).
ReplyDeleteWhen I was a grad student/adjunct I used to give a syllabus quiz, and it worked like a charm. (Given my age, though, I was trying all kinds of tricks to convince them and myself that I. Was. Serious. about class rules and the like.) I never counted the quiz grade in the final tally -- which I never admitted to them -- but having the quiz the day after the final drop day was enough to make them sit up straighter for at least the first month.
DeleteI often think of reinstating some kind of syllabus quiz, but unfortunately I don't think it would work in my current courses/department setup.
I used to mock an older colleague who gave a syllabus quiz (there were other reasons to mock said colleague; classic retired-in-place silverback) but I have to admit that I've considered it recently.
DeleteI don't do this. Some of my colleagues have students sign and date a small form that says "Yes, I read and understand the syllabus" or something to that effect. I've thought about doing that, but up to this point (knock wood) I have not had anyone challenge me on the policies contained in my syllabus.
ReplyDeleteI include this in all syllabi:
ReplyDelete"By participating in this course, you agree to the following"
...and then add the School's honor statement.
It seems to prevent caterwauling, bawling,and for the most part, howling.
I would prefer to use the term "enrolling" over "participating". Participating seems to require them to do something in order for the syllabus to be valid.
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DeleteThat is certainly another option; the underlying intent of using "participating" was to convey this message: "The minute your behind is in a seat in the classroom, or you log into the CMS, abide by the Honor Code or face wrath, mayhem, and other consequences best mentioned in whispers."
DeleteThere is a reason to have them sign: it can have a psychological impact. By performing a positive action, explicitly agreeing to a code of conduct slightly reinforces their commitment to the conduct. I'm told there are studies supporting this.
ReplyDeleteThe legal stuff is BS, I think.
None of this matters if you work at a school where you lack the power to enforce your syllabus without interference from above or the side.
ReplyDeleteIt's the same issue as people who think that, if it's in the syllabus, the students MUST be held to it.
Depending on the school, it's ALL up for grabs at the first "complaint."
I admit I'd never heard of this.
ReplyDeleteI think (new?) undergrads at our institution have to do some sort of online academic-honesty tutorial, but I believe the syllabus-is-a-contract thing is just understood. Is anyone doing the signature-thing outside of the lawsuit-happy US of A?
I think getting them to sign implies syllabus as contract to the point where you open the door for student lawyers to argue that anything that isn't explicitly forbidden is permitted. I had one a few semesters ago who argued that because cheating on the exam wasn't forbidden on the syllabus, I couldn't expect her not to cheat. It's harder to argue for commonsense when you have made them sign as if the syllabus contains all the rules.
ReplyDeleteI have them sign and return a statement at the end that says they have had the Syllabus explained to them and been given the opportunity to ask questions. I find this is especially helpful to do with regards to the plagiarism policy. For my online classes I ask that they email me with the statement that they understand the plagiarism policy. It is easy for them...they just have to reply to my email where I send them another copy of it with the words "I understand." I will not accept their work if they wont do it. Like I mean I wont collect it. Live this has never been a problem. They kind of look at each other, smirk at me and just sign it if they were not there on the first day. Online I wont grade anything until they reply. It is harder online but more important since they plagiarize everything, from the first discussion post onwards
ReplyDelete