tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post2724289679858760106..comments2023-10-15T04:23:50.187-04:00Comments on College Misery: Survey Says??Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-58680270846666765482011-09-30T20:02:25.545-04:002011-09-30T20:02:25.545-04:00I want to highlight something Frod said:
"I...I want to highlight something Frod said: <br /><br />"I certainly did [learn during lectures], even in my comp lit classes, since the prof who lectured about the factual historical and philosophical context into which the literature fit was well prepared and did it well, whereas the other prof who was Socratic was also totally disorganized and impossible to follow coherently."<br /><br Rosencrantz Andor Guildensternhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05095512139776536635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-57453218303677371142011-09-30T09:57:55.348-04:002011-09-30T09:57:55.348-04:00Yes, say something provocative... like, "All ...Yes, say something provocative... like, <i>"All Jews should be sterilized!"</i><br />8-)Southern Bubba, Ph.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12050992903794385204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-86287780286936623042011-09-30T03:23:50.981-04:002011-09-30T03:23:50.981-04:00By the way, a way I've long used to get a disc...By the way, a way I've long used to get a discussion going is to say something provocative. It doesn't always work, particularly if no one in the class has done the reading: the classroom scene in Animal House depicts what can happen.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-55305583873620397932011-09-30T01:48:43.678-04:002011-09-30T01:48:43.678-04:00If there was ever an educational method I hated, h...If there was ever an educational method I hated, hated, hated, hated, HATED (yes, I saw King Lear lately: how can you tell?) it was group work. As the smartest kid in nearly every class, it would inevitably degenerate into me doing all the work, and everyone getting equal credit for it. <br /><br />I am starting to think that only the good students, who are capable of learning in ways that are Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-31558457161336190882011-09-30T01:43:07.811-04:002011-09-30T01:43:07.811-04:00@DrNathaniel: I'm sorry you didn't learn d...@DrNathaniel: I'm sorry you didn't learn during lectures. I certainly did, even in my comp lit classes, since the prof who lectured about the factual historical and philosophical context into which the literature fit was well prepared and did it well, whereas the other prof who was Socratic was also totally disorganized and impossible to follow coherently.<br /><br />The lack of Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-2686572192527206222011-09-29T17:26:56.867-04:002011-09-29T17:26:56.867-04:00Bride, I agree that modeling is important, but onl...Bride, I agree that modeling is important, but only if you then immediately turn around and hand the students a tool to use to imitate it, right then and there (a question, a technique to try, a passage to unpack just as I did, etc.). So I lecture 10-15 minutes at a time at most, then off we go. I may circle back and lecture more later on, but in general I don't think an hour of pure Frog and Toadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06377542172335502858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-33601639833021186332011-09-29T13:42:43.620-04:002011-09-29T13:42:43.620-04:00What I might do, though, is have them switch prep ...What I might do, though, is have them switch prep cards/papers/essays with another student. Then they are using the prep work of another student o talk -- if they are "wrong" it won't affect their standing, and this might alter the shyness problem.<br /><br />Thanks for your input, people.Academic Monkeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07086078244493768565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-86833514419669642662011-09-29T13:41:39.495-04:002011-09-29T13:41:39.495-04:00Wow, what responses!
A few things. First, when yo...Wow, what responses!<br /><br />A few things. First, when you are trying to teach critical thinking, there is only so far that lecture can take you. In the end, the core of the course is forcing them to think critically in class to that they can show it in exams, papers, and presentations. <br /><br />Secondly, as I tried to demonstrate with the exercise of having them tell the class their names,Academic Monkeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07086078244493768565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-60951964277694171402011-09-29T11:42:37.057-04:002011-09-29T11:42:37.057-04:00I've gotten better at discussions since I'...I've gotten better at discussions since I've had to lead them, but, in part because I teach writing (and am lucky enough to be in computer classrooms much of the time), I rely primarily on individual and group exercises, workshops, etc., with short lectures/demonstrations/explanations to open the class, and wrapping up/reporting in at the end. It's probably more like a lab than a Contingent Cassandrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08161652083031423415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-5969185098191392472011-09-29T11:38:05.316-04:002011-09-29T11:38:05.316-04:00Like Bride of Squid, I was a relatively quiet stud...Like Bride of Squid, I was a relatively quiet student, and more than once got comments on papers to the effect that the TA or professor wished I would bring up some of these ideas in class. The truth was that I didn't have them there, since I don't do my best thinking in a room with a lot of people talking in rapid succession. Writing papers alone in my room, with an occasional, also Contingent Cassandrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08161652083031423415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-35587159898810876562011-09-29T11:34:52.703-04:002011-09-29T11:34:52.703-04:00Frod, I have two almost antithetical responses to ...Frod, I have two almost antithetical responses to your comment.<br /><br />First, when I was sitting quietly in class as you were, I was not learning passively, and I think you weren't either. I was always trying to anticipate the instructor, out-guess her, or try to argue with him in my marginal notes. Physical passivity does not equate with intellectual passivity. <br />But we aren't Three Sigmahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10822893039310439770noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-29430739171702962592011-09-29T10:07:32.931-04:002011-09-29T10:07:32.931-04:00I think you have a choice:
1) Do things right: ma...I think you have a choice:<br /><br />1) Do things right: make them think, answer questions, engage etc. The Socratic method is good here and I like the: what is the author's name? question. (However, I wonder if they are offended that you would ask such an easy question. After all, they are geniuses and you are pitching a softball.)<br />Problem: you get silence. The problem with this isGauss from Grinnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12833535701520898069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-38915620580426010852011-09-29T10:01:37.087-04:002011-09-29T10:01:37.087-04:00I'm not sure that lecture always sucks in the ...I'm not sure that lecture always sucks in the Humanities. I agree that there's no way to master methods without doing them; but there are a lot of steps that come before mastery. Aside from presenting facts to be remembered, lecture provides the opportunity to learn by imitation. When you're learning to do something like interpret literature, it can be really helpful to see what an Bride of Squidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18056041261871766708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-24187473397691805552011-09-29T09:58:45.704-04:002011-09-29T09:58:45.704-04:00In my office, we have a talking stick, which is ac...In my office, we have a talking stick, which is actually a rubber pig someone left there. The pig comes to a class where there are discussion issues - either not enough conversation, or where there's that one student who answers every question. <br /><br />When I want discussion, I toss the pig to a student. The student who has the pig has to say something. No one else gets to talk. Once the WhatLadderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11603489349164511704noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-13437320991864001882011-09-29T09:26:50.093-04:002011-09-29T09:26:50.093-04:00"The [lecture] method can work well in subjec..."The [lecture] method can work well in subjects that involve known facts and right answers."<br /><br />I think that is key. It sucks in the Humanities, where there is simply no way to master the methods without actually doing them. I can talk till I am blue in the face about Moby Dick, but all you'll have in the end is my interpretation of it. Whereas if *you* talk about Moby Frog and Toadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06377542172335502858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-81617332501564103262011-09-29T08:26:15.147-04:002011-09-29T08:26:15.147-04:00Please let me qualify that I did not intend my abo...Please let me qualify that I did not intend my above response as an ad hominem criticism of Academic Monkey. I realized after I posted it that it sounded that way. What I meant to express was a more general frustration that the format of college classes does not always allow instructors, especially adjuncts, the time or ability to create effective discussion environments that allow us to assessSurly Templehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05057191570792423261noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-61439728277638420242011-09-29T08:05:19.998-04:002011-09-29T08:05:19.998-04:00Ditto Froderick. You can't just expect your s...Ditto Froderick. You can't just expect your students to be insightful and interesting about the material without guidance. Discussions are great, but they have to have something substantive to discuss, and they may honestly not know how to put the material into larger or more complex contexts. <br /><br />You say you don't even want to bother learning their names, and that precludes Surly Templehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05057191570792423261noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-65576536138530912252011-09-29T01:35:17.408-04:002011-09-29T01:35:17.408-04:00I sincerely recommend you go back to lecturing, an...I sincerely recommend you go back to lecturing, and do it well, which will mean a substantial amount of preparation on your part. I have serious doubts about your assertion, so fashionable among academics these days, that "retention rates in lectures are ridiculously low." If that's even true, it reminds me of what Winston Churchill said about democracy as a system of government: toAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-68726865418239314492011-09-28T23:57:29.912-04:002011-09-28T23:57:29.912-04:00I've had a bit of luck with exercises that req...I've had a bit of luck with exercises that require the students to lead the class for a period, as long as I make clear that I'm not going to step in to get the conversation going, and as long as I stick to my guns on that. I put them in groups and give them a specific task--here's a passage, come up with two interesting things to say about it, and two questions for discussion--and Bride of Squidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18056041261871766708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-50055433544133558132011-09-28T23:42:08.089-04:002011-09-28T23:42:08.089-04:00Try think-pair-share. Get them talking at least to...Try think-pair-share. Get them talking at least to each other, then evesdrop.Three Sigmahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10822893039310439770noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-24033100896466222972011-09-28T23:01:13.029-04:002011-09-28T23:01:13.029-04:00I've always really liked this paper:
http://wa...I've always really liked this paper:<br />http://wac.colostate.edu/journal/vol16/gopen.pdf<br />and had pretty good results from using / modifying Gopen's ideas.EC1https://www.blogger.com/profile/13414931249618049097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-59891480364016379002011-09-28T22:33:31.995-04:002011-09-28T22:33:31.995-04:00Index cards. Same as the one-minute lecture, on c...Index cards. Same as the one-minute lecture, on cards you can read aloud. Collect 'em first, pull a card, say the name and ask the student to recap. If they won't, you read it.Frog and Toadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06377542172335502858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-7894932100158325962011-09-28T19:50:38.282-04:002011-09-28T19:50:38.282-04:00I'm sure that anything Strelnikov suggests wil...I'm sure that anything Strelnikov suggests will work just fine.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-36533881059545043262011-09-28T18:38:13.301-04:002011-09-28T18:38:13.301-04:00One-minute papers.
I had similar trouble with a c...One-minute papers.<br /><br />I had similar trouble with a class that wouldn't talk. At all. So I turned to an old technique that someone introduced me to.<br /><br />I put an image on the screen with a question. Or just a question (relating to the text that they had to read as homework). Then I tell them to pull out a fresh sheet of paper and address the question. I say: I want to see Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com