tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post7307706256432688722..comments2023-10-15T04:23:50.187-04:00Comments on College Misery: A Big Thirsty on Essay Help From Tessa from Tucumcari.Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-67334919261749642212013-03-24T19:49:54.818-04:002013-03-24T19:49:54.818-04:00Go for it! It really cuts down on the poor drafts....Go for it! It really cuts down on the poor drafts. You can also encourage your students to go to the university's writing center for an additional half letter grade if their writing is really atrocious. Maybellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01470091893270064951noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-46760942842322116552013-03-24T13:15:41.977-04:002013-03-24T13:15:41.977-04:00I have been trained in giving peer review workshop...I have been trained in giving peer review workshops. I have read entire bookshelves of stuff about how to do it right. Let me tell you this: Peer review workshops are a goddamned waste of time. Even with heavy scaffolding, not a whole lot of value gets done. Individual conferences (or small group conferences, in which you can mingle the peer review method with a sanity-saving schedule and Professor Chiltepinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10087270705989845484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-55127763659775909272013-03-24T02:44:49.617-04:002013-03-24T02:44:49.617-04:00Agreed. I forgot to mention on my initial comment ...Agreed. I forgot to mention on my initial comment that peer review works only if the students are already prepared to focus on very specific aspects of the work. I ask them, for instance, to restate the thesis in their own words and find at least three specific instances of support for the thesis. If they can't find those things, either the writer is in big trouble or the peers have not beenEnglishDochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12046114978214062491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-68960038239220309012013-03-23T12:40:07.425-04:002013-03-23T12:40:07.425-04:00Peer review workshops are most useful when you giv...Peer review workshops are most useful when you give students a limited number of very specific things to look for in each other's drafts. I mostly have students evaluate whether the main components of the assignment are there: abstract, literature review, thesis statement, counter-argument, and so on. I tell them that if they have to ask where or what something is, they should note that. The Magical Realisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14069059368113533234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-75299043032920875852013-03-22T08:17:41.933-04:002013-03-22T08:17:41.933-04:00Likewise. I'm thinking very hard about impleme...Likewise. I'm thinking very hard about implementing it.introvert.profhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09042783611716432247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-56118502239311134162013-03-21T22:50:13.945-04:002013-03-21T22:50:13.945-04:00I love this idea that you can earn only up to 1 le...I love this idea that you can earn only up to 1 letter grade higher than a draft. Even with one-on-one conferences, it eliminates the problem of being sent CRAP to "fix."Frog and Toadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06377542172335502858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-84503193739121179102013-03-21T20:49:00.152-04:002013-03-21T20:49:00.152-04:00If you teach at a university where the students ar...If you teach at a university where the students are all motivated and intelligent, and have a minimum ACT of oh, 28, or so, peer workshops might help. Otherwise it's a total joke. And even then, it's not going to help as much as working with you will. The idea that the "students will teach each other" is ludicrous if the students aren't good to begin with. To my mind it&#StellafromSparksburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17584701718285662953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-70404224253985956302013-03-21T20:15:43.926-04:002013-03-21T20:15:43.926-04:00Your English colleague might have other reasons fo...Your English colleague might have other reasons for doing peer workshops (ie. they're efficient and make students feel like they are doing something useful; some students will even rate them as useful because, to them, surface-level mistakes are all that's important to editing). Peer workshops CAN work well if students are trained to look for specific things. That takes time and effort The Contemplative Cynichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02088570661592922436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-57499132577508130912013-03-21T19:29:52.065-04:002013-03-21T19:29:52.065-04:00This is probably not quite what you're asking ...This is probably not quite what you're asking for, but as a student I find that I 100% prefer workshopping with the professor if I can, with very few exceptions. Obviously a lot of professors don't have enough time to do this, but frankly? I hate peer reviews. Hate them. They've never, ever not been a waste of time for me--and for various reasons I won't go into, I've had no Phoenixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05204892438690861489noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-6940677501129055362013-03-21T16:16:30.306-04:002013-03-21T16:16:30.306-04:00The absolutely best peer review experience I had a...The absolutely best peer review experience I had as an undergraduate went as follows:<br />1) Teacher created sign-up sheets for midterms, giving each group one hour slots. Teacher assigned groups based upon availability: aka students who could "only make it during class hours" were given a spot on those slots.<br /><br />2) All papers were due to the peer review groups and the Maybellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01470091893270064951noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-62434893246096172752013-03-21T16:03:08.266-04:002013-03-21T16:03:08.266-04:00Back when I was an undergrad, I dreaded peer revie...Back when I was an undergrad, I dreaded peer reviews, because they were never any help. The people who read my drafts were invariably inarticulate and/or imbeciles. Most of them just made insipid comments like, "Interesting!" <br /><br />Back in grad school, while TAing for a professor who was into the whole peer review thing, I would occasionally overhear students giving other studentsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-53868642929526461952013-03-21T15:33:38.767-04:002013-03-21T15:33:38.767-04:00I have similar problems teaching writing in my Phi...I have similar problems teaching writing in my Philosophy courses. When I do peer review, I have them bring three copies of their draft -- I have them keep one copy and turn two in to me.. I keep a copy so that I can give points for the draft, then I have them pick a partner to work with for the first half of the class -- then I make the pairings for the second half. When I make the pairings I Inside the Philosophy Factoryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12255753259090709877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-15458112512578997042013-03-21T14:22:16.221-04:002013-03-21T14:22:16.221-04:00Addendum: If your students aren't accustomed t...Addendum: If your students aren't accustomed to working on peer groups to provide feedback, having a clear model of what good feedback looks like would also help a lot to avoid the blind-leading-blind problem MNT mentions.HPPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11927706471904009157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-684675752812467782013-03-21T14:20:53.471-04:002013-03-21T14:20:53.471-04:00Create a clear rubric and clearly written assignme...Create a clear rubric and clearly written assignment (for your own sake and for your students' sake), and use a model that the whole class discusses before any peer workshops (and the model doesn't need to be perfect, but it should at least be competent). A student volunteer is usually the best approach for the model.<br /><br />When discussing the model, make sure to point out positive HPPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11927706471904009157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-38359052765212937882013-03-21T12:49:51.113-04:002013-03-21T12:49:51.113-04:00I always run peer review workshops; though, to be ... I always run peer review workshops; though, to be honest, I find them fairly ineffective. What usually happens is a version of the blind leading the blind. However, when you give them a list of specifically pointed questions/areas they should look for in each other's papers, it at least gives the students clues as to what they should be doing in their writing. Secondly, I don't have Miss N. Thropehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00727516842115808393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-91787313628911914612013-03-21T12:28:49.457-04:002013-03-21T12:28:49.457-04:00For my beginning writing students, I use both. The...For my beginning writing students, I use both. The peer review always comes first. We always talk about how peers can give great help, but the student who is the writer needs to retain a sense of ownership. Just because a peer says something doesn't mean it's a good idea. I allow them to make revisions based on the peer feedback. Then I offer them the choice of a conference with me or a EnglishDochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12046114978214062491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-23905131982838962672013-03-21T10:32:57.814-04:002013-03-21T10:32:57.814-04:00Your absolutly right, Lucy! I didn't mean to ...Your absolutly right, Lucy! I didn't mean to imply that it was one or the other :). And I love your idea for using the rubric for workhshop, or even peer, evaluations!TK-421https://www.blogger.com/profile/04816780722607630224noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-91721097206078749592013-03-21T10:28:50.653-04:002013-03-21T10:28:50.653-04:00I second TK-421's suggestions, and I would add...I second TK-421's suggestions, and I would add that it would be okay to do <i>both</i> a workshop and draft conferences -- it doesn't have to be one or the other. <br /><br />If you had to pick one, I would say that draft conferences would be a better use of everyone's time. Workshops can be useful, but they can also be a bit of an unproductive time-suck, depending on who shows up, Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13327984687823524531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-2726309978806987392013-03-21T10:12:23.815-04:002013-03-21T10:12:23.815-04:00If you have a good writing center on your campus, ...If you have a good writing center on your campus, I have found that they can be a BIG help. They will often come to your class and do workshops. In addition, I have always had good experiences making it a requirement of my students to take their rough drafts to the Writing Center for review and editing. <br /><br />Above and beyond that, I also heartily recommend that you use a rubric for TK-421https://www.blogger.com/profile/04816780722607630224noreply@blogger.com