tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post8422853726682232853..comments2023-10-15T04:23:50.187-04:00Comments on College Misery: Well, Duh (but good to have it confirmed, I suppose)Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-8229534773234948952013-02-24T15:39:32.324-05:002013-02-24T15:39:32.324-05:00Thanks, Dr. D. I suspect that if I were an adminis...Thanks, Dr. D. I suspect that if I were an administrator faced with dwindling state support and rising costs (and legislators clamoring for me to deliver more education more cheaply, or they'll cut support even more), I'd probably be clutching at straws, too. It's always easier to kibbitz from the margins/monkey gallery. <br /><br />The "better brand" question is a Contingent Cassandrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08161652083031423415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-43847181214545265932013-02-24T13:54:13.188-05:002013-02-24T13:54:13.188-05:00Actually, Peter, I would question the benefit of c...Actually, Peter, I would question the benefit of classroom give-and-take in real time, even when it happens. <br /><br />Look, I earned my BA conventionally back when computers were those things you had to <b>BE</b> at a college to use and they were reserved for those engaged in actual research, not simply preparing a term paper. (The fortunate of us had electric typewriters!) So, I do remember Aware and Scaredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14700345349806280657noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-51013748050907797732013-02-24T12:17:31.336-05:002013-02-24T12:17:31.336-05:00Oh CC! If only they (administrators) would just li...Oh CC! If only they (administrators) would just listen to your reasoned arguments.<br /><br />Instead, all they see is the potential of $$$ and not of losing students to a "better brand" who offers the same education... maybe even at a much higher cost, but with a better brand name for their diploma.Dr Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10444414777736734711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-78198596018486145152013-02-24T12:05:01.161-05:002013-02-24T12:05:01.161-05:00Well, one obvious first step in that situation wou...Well, one obvious first step in that situation would be to survey the current students (and, if you can manage it, any identifiable potential ones) to see if they'd be interested in an online version of the course (or perhaps a hybrid one -- every other week face to face, or maybe one Saturday a month, with online activities in between). <br /><br />The other thing you might consider, if youContingent Cassandrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08161652083031423415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-74866254884740691222013-02-23T22:08:01.619-05:002013-02-23T22:08:01.619-05:00My department chair wants to talk about offering o...My department chair wants to talk about offering our courses in the teaching-masters program online. Currently they meet in the evening, once a week (it's a medium-size town, no commuting problem.) I wonder what the motivation is, and I also wonder if the (non-traditional, mostly teachers) students would miss the opportunity to socialize with their peers. <br /><br />And I'm not a Peter Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00754472537710161295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-49923508034120423952013-02-23T17:21:35.306-05:002013-02-23T17:21:35.306-05:00(continued; I managed to hit blogger's limit a...(continued; I managed to hit blogger's limit again). And I suspect it can work in many fields, including those where socialization/enculturation is part of the process (after all, we've built something of a culture here at CM, and, not so long ago, scholars built community almost entirely through letters and published journal articles). I think we're in a shakedown phase, and will Contingent Cassandrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08161652083031423415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-75210353059243791372013-02-23T17:19:52.010-05:002013-02-23T17:19:52.010-05:00@Peter: I think that's true, at least for enga...@Peter: I think that's true, at least for engaged students (given the same student population, well-done online learning is generally somewhat less efficient than face to face learning). However, I really wouldn't underestimate the extent of a phenomenon to which A&S alludes: the ability of students registered for traditional classes to mistake attendance (even occasional attendance)Contingent Cassandrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08161652083031423415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-25791520172129263532013-02-23T16:46:20.274-05:002013-02-23T16:46:20.274-05:00@Aware, I don't think you would question the b...@Aware, I don't think you would question the benefits of classroom give-and-take in real time, when it happens. You're right, in a typical class most students are completely disengaged. But there are always a few who aren't, and just from observing them, gradually others are moved to participate. I wonder if there is an online equivalent of this process. <br /><br />For self-motivatedPeter Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00754472537710161295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-59754146186089981052013-02-23T15:39:55.011-05:002013-02-23T15:39:55.011-05:00I wonder if anybody has tested books? Much as I lo...I wonder if anybody has tested books? Much as I love the things, I fear they wouldn't score all that high, either. Learning is hard work (and traditional-age college students are awash in hormones and subject to other distractions, as are less-traditional-age students), and one needs a really good incentive to master a body of knowledge/skills, and ongoing use/practice, to really stay Contingent Cassandrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08161652083031423415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-23275904123775832502013-02-23T15:31:22.132-05:002013-02-23T15:31:22.132-05:00"I still don;t understand the difference betw..."I still don;t understand the difference between asking a beginner to watch a canned lecture and telling the same person to read a chapter in a book, then test them on the content."<br /><br />There isn't one -- and, as Frod points out below, alternative delivery methods have been tried before, with only slightly different technology (there really isn't that much difference Contingent Cassandrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08161652083031423415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-7813973959509739202013-02-23T15:23:59.432-05:002013-02-23T15:23:59.432-05:00I am so off the charts tired of elevation of class...I am so off the charts tired of elevation of classroom "give-and-take" into being some sort of sacred, universally validated, exclusively successful mode of education. <br /><br />Jeebus H on a cracker ... isn't this blog overflowing with examples of just how DISengaged students can be in a classroom?<br /><br />No, I can't disagree with the "crack for administrators" Aware and Scaredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14700345349806280657noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-54693949493619891772013-02-23T13:21:06.827-05:002013-02-23T13:21:06.827-05:00Doesn't anyone remember programmed instruction...Doesn't anyone remember programmed instruction, from the late '60s? No, I suppose not: it was infamous for that. It was cheaper than online instruction, since it didn't require everyone to have a computer.<br /><br />Doesn't anyone remember teaching machines? No, I suppose not: they were infamous for that too. They had more of the disadvantages of online instruction, including theAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-9966901409180791122013-02-23T11:50:48.619-05:002013-02-23T11:50:48.619-05:00The give-and-take of a normal classroom interactio...The give-and-take of a normal classroom interaction, with instructor and students asking and thinking about unplanned, unpredictable questions, is essential to the learning process and does not "scale up". It doesn't even scale up from a group of 20 to a group of 100 students in old-style classes, let alone to online instruction (which, thankfully, I have no direct experience with.)Peter Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00754472537710161295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-37189992234209689852013-02-23T09:39:38.591-05:002013-02-23T09:39:38.591-05:00Who would have thought this could happen?Who would have thought this could happen?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com