tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post5120193414584653904..comments2023-10-15T04:23:50.187-04:00Comments on College Misery: Doing research with so-so students, by Froderick Frankenstien from FresnoUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-57177388555306075562016-06-29T01:56:38.624-04:002016-06-29T01:56:38.624-04:00It's much like being the sergeant of a platoon...It's much like being the sergeant of a platoon that runs away every time the enemy is sighted: if I were to shoot them for cowardice, I'd have to shoot all of them. My admin wouldn't like that. If you want a really disturbing thought, remember: most of them wind up as K-14 teachers, and they are highly regarded here in Fresno!Froderick Frankenstien from Fresnohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11653942918068535424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-78450619142530146962016-06-29T01:51:59.536-04:002016-06-29T01:51:59.536-04:00The problem with this approach is that I'd hav...The problem with this approach is that I'd have to flunk every last one of them, and no science would get done. Don't worry, their GRE scores keep them from mucking up the works. See also the last four paragraphs, on: Why don't I just give up? Froderick Frankenstien from Fresnohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11653942918068535424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-57451816121628952432016-06-28T09:19:07.635-04:002016-06-28T09:19:07.635-04:00Hey, Frode, yer rippin' it up with that misery...Hey, Frode, yer rippin' it up with that misery. I was a little shocked by this line: "It's not unusual for an M.S. thesis I've mentored to be about 80% written by me." Pardon my French, sir, but what the fuck? Let the punks tank. I cannot imagine for one second having/letting my thesis committee write even one word of what I finally turned in. Seriously, Frode, put downThe Gognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-11806380124559986972016-06-25T01:32:24.691-04:002016-06-25T01:32:24.691-04:00I'm not doing what I signed up for. But I stil...I'm not doing what I signed up for. But I still feel, much of the time, that I'm doing what I was prepared for. Between the minor and major annoyances comes a certain satisfaction.<br /><br />So your trainees don't stay in the field. But the fields they wind up in... they're good ones, yes? They make headway, and some of them incite passion for seeking to know in at least some Ogre Proctor Hephttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17428431147495287413noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-69525897161560824962016-06-24T22:30:58.814-04:002016-06-24T22:30:58.814-04:00Few to none of them appear to have chronic unemplo...Few to none of them appear to have chronic unemployment problems. Many of them attend our annual physics graduation dinner, and seem cheerful enough. Of course, almost none remain in professional astronomy for more than a couple years after they finish with me: most wind up in K-14 teaching, or energy or other industries. I suppose, then, that what I do does help---but jeez Louise, it wasn't Froderick Frankenstien from Fresnohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11653942918068535424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-83861055476263105572016-06-24T20:33:37.761-04:002016-06-24T20:33:37.761-04:00One can also hope that they at least come away wit...One can also hope that they at least come away with greater insight into how knowledge is made, even if they don't reach anything resembling competence at making it themselves. That *might* inoculate them, just a bit, against hucksters, demagogues, et al. <br /><br />At least one can hope. . . .Contingent Cassandrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08161652083031423415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-74617241359586141162016-06-24T20:30:40.398-04:002016-06-24T20:30:40.398-04:00I've enjoyed Frod week (sort of like shark wee...I've enjoyed Frod week (sort of like shark week, but with fewer teeth and more staples). Contingent Cassandrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08161652083031423415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-44261382832834009772016-06-24T11:43:59.641-04:002016-06-24T11:43:59.641-04:00It absolutely sounds like they are better prepared...It absolutely sounds like they are better prepared than they would have been because of your heroic efforts (and I mean that sincerely). Here's the question: Do they suddenly become self-sufficient self-starters once they enter the workforce, or are their bosses having to invest the same kind of time and energy that you did.Ed Yutanenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-80458903511300644352016-06-24T06:42:18.083-04:002016-06-24T06:42:18.083-04:00Let's just say I picked a bad day to quit snif...Let's just say I picked a bad day to quit sniffing glue.Froderick Frankenstien from Fresnohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11653942918068535424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-62826150951406334132016-06-23T22:00:13.367-04:002016-06-23T22:00:13.367-04:00So you're saying you were fully aware of the a...So you're saying you were fully aware of the additive?Ogre Proctor Hephttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17428431147495287413noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-78792150425059957982016-06-23T19:08:17.351-04:002016-06-23T19:08:17.351-04:00We can always hope they get better, which certainl...We can always hope they get better, which certainly won't happen if I give up. But yes, when our new dean starts to press me to bring in more external funding, I am going to point out that we are sitting at the kiddie table.Froderick Frankenstien from Fresnohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11653942918068535424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-49958449853628515752016-06-23T19:03:19.322-04:002016-06-23T19:03:19.322-04:00As you can see from the quality of the typing, Bub...As you can see from the quality of the typing, Bubba, there was no sneaking.Froderick Frankenstien from Fresnohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11653942918068535424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-78751813508920040822016-06-23T17:00:06.397-04:002016-06-23T17:00:06.397-04:00Frod, you're kind of prolific today. How are ...Frod, you're kind of prolific today. How are we going to kill the site if you create interesting, original content for it? Did someone sneak amphetamines into your Cheerios this morning?<br />Southern Bubba, Ph.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12050992903794385204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-39299188785401581512016-06-23T12:00:58.673-04:002016-06-23T12:00:58.673-04:00Froderick, although I admire your efforts and your...Froderick, although I admire your efforts and your commitment to mentoring students, I wonder if you are doing them--and our society--no favors in the long run. I'm not sure what the alternative would be, though. Clearly, these students would just disappear if you did shift your expectations upward. I think we're all kinda screwed if these "children are the future." On the Ed Yutanenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-63301154628314286192016-06-23T08:25:34.538-04:002016-06-23T08:25:34.538-04:00I and my colleagues have problems similar if not i...I and my colleagues have problems similar if not identical to these. Well, mostly THEY do, because my research career has been winding down and I can't get enough time near a lab even to mentor a student project. So I collaborate a lot and experience it at thesis committee meetings, lab meetings, and in the run up to defenses when I have to read the drafts. Oh. Oh. The writing. I need a drinkOgre Proctor Hephttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17428431147495287413noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-91346853158213777922016-06-22T22:36:41.838-04:002016-06-22T22:36:41.838-04:00I don't have anything like your depth of exper...I don't have anything like your depth of experience but I can speak to many of these points.<br /><br />- Not pulling their own weight. Check. But I had mentored young grad students and REU students as a post-doc so I knew that was coming. A five-to-one ratio is not only believable, but suggests that you're doing something right. My rule of thumb from when I was a senior post-doc and keptdmckeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18052641757203089416noreply@blogger.com