tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post5487741294418762565..comments2023-10-15T04:23:50.187-04:00Comments on College Misery: Remedial classes failing to help college students.Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-21399449583678786382012-05-30T00:59:53.496-04:002012-05-30T00:59:53.496-04:00At some point, we were not allowed to call our cou...At some point, we were not allowed to call our courses "remedial" any longer. Instead, they evolved into "developmental." However, a tremendous difference exists between these two terms, at least in my mind. "Remedial" means the students already knew it and just need a bit of practice or a refresher in order to get back into the swing of things. It now has the EnglishDochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12046114978214062491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-16636555819481557982012-05-29T23:31:34.478-04:002012-05-29T23:31:34.478-04:00Late to the party, but I'm with Stella on this...Late to the party, but I'm with Stella on this not really being a racial issue. The only black kids in my local SD are upper-working-class, with two involved parents at home. They are doing well.<br /><br />On the other hand, one of my newest Eagle Scouts, a white boy, has a clueless mother with revolving-door boyfriends and damn little support at home; the people at the school mostly think introvert.profhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09042783611716432247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-73087946532824164002012-05-29T23:17:19.898-04:002012-05-29T23:17:19.898-04:00O dear Greta, yes. And bless your fuzzy heart for ...O dear Greta, yes. And bless your fuzzy heart for what you do. Holy cow.Annie Oakleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02396950355961607377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-31218298423423666172012-05-29T21:07:15.410-04:002012-05-29T21:07:15.410-04:00Stella, I agree with both education departments an...Stella, I agree with both education departments and poor parenting. The reason the best students don't go into education is because it's not intellectually rigorous, requires babysitting and the salaries are 50-70% of what your can get in industry (for chemistry). Better parenting helps to fix the behavior issues. How do you attract smart people to a job that requires them to know lessAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-26772314080018632562012-05-29T20:24:21.769-04:002012-05-29T20:24:21.769-04:00Right there with ya, GLG. Preach it, sister. Pub...Right there with ya, GLG. Preach it, sister. Public schools full of students who can't read, write, or multiply? Better take away more money, to punish the teachers and students towards learning. It's coming pretty soon for higher ed, starting with the CC's...Dr. Pablitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12044041095776177631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-28025067410709536792012-05-29T19:14:38.040-04:002012-05-29T19:14:38.040-04:00Agreed.Agreed.Untenured Ursulahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12107788326951579690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-2525795608913142642012-05-29T19:02:32.178-04:002012-05-29T19:02:32.178-04:00I had to do remedial math when I started college b...I had to do remedial math when I started college because I refused to learn it in HS. But I was motivated and went from pre-algebra to pre-calculus in 2 years. I didn't ENJOY it, but I did it because I had to.<br /><br />Then I taught a remedial writing course at an inner-city CC and it was awful. About 1/3 of the students actually wanted to be there. Most of them thought writing was stupid Snarky Writerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04196509615328045888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-7451643014315793452012-05-29T18:43:29.112-04:002012-05-29T18:43:29.112-04:00Yeah, I don't think we fundamentally disagree ...Yeah, I don't think we fundamentally disagree -- wraparound services from pregnancy to college are what's in order here. Instead, we get some sorry-assed wars.Frog and Toadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06377542172335502858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-81612947940965341802012-05-29T18:08:24.946-04:002012-05-29T18:08:24.946-04:00It's always nice to be able to blame the stude...It's always nice to be able to blame the student for being lazy, or stupid, or whatever, isn't it; because that means we don't have to try. Where the effort has to go, however, is long before they go to college. A lot of students you are writing off as too stupid to benefit would have been fine if they had encountered good K-12 education.Merely Academichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00452389428113097744noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-87846780630041800662012-05-29T18:02:12.084-04:002012-05-29T18:02:12.084-04:00Damn straight. It's worth pointing out that F...Damn straight. It's worth pointing out that Finland started pouring money into equal access education with highly trained teachers in the 1970's, but it took 20 years to start seeing results, too. Equal access education is one of the bases of reduced income inequity, which will, in turn, produce good results in the schools. When you've got spectacular inequity outside the classroomMerely Academichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00452389428113097744noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-9729640896062400722012-05-29T17:49:46.188-04:002012-05-29T17:49:46.188-04:00Well, I understand what you're saying, Ursula,...Well, I understand what you're saying, Ursula, but the key point in there is that it IS working at the Harlem Children's Zone, which has "enormous resources and free health care". Doubtless the other schools are not pouring enough into their programs. <br /><br />I favor tax increases that would provide those enormous resources and free health care for kids not in Harlem.StellafromSparksburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17584701718285662953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-8134864707623160182012-05-29T17:29:29.888-04:002012-05-29T17:29:29.888-04:00I think the poverty issue extends beyond having hi...I think the poverty issue extends beyond having high expectations. Without home support and early preschool, some of these kids enter school so far behind their peers that it would take a lifetime of extra school to catch up. And the charters in New York, DC, and New Orleans are trying precisely the model you describe to do that. WIth few exceptions (Harlem Children's Zone, for one, which hasUntenured Ursulahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12107788326951579690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-30924123241393459212012-05-29T17:04:57.292-04:002012-05-29T17:04:57.292-04:00Oops, double negative. Neither/nor ... ever.Oops, double negative. Neither/nor ... ever.Frog and Toadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06377542172335502858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-72643998135212535592012-05-29T17:04:43.345-04:002012-05-29T17:04:43.345-04:00F&T:
Crushing poverty affects African-America...F&T:<br /><br />Crushing poverty affects African-Americans disproportionately, but it is not a white issue or a black issue. More white people are on food stamps than black people. More white people get medicaid, welfare, etc. And everyone's got their cross to bear. I don't think we should make excuses. Even rich kids might be from an evironment where no one gives a shit about themStellafromSparksburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17584701718285662953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-8961531812234551342012-05-29T16:26:39.776-04:002012-05-29T16:26:39.776-04:00Oh, please, let's just say it. This is not yo...Oh, please, let's just say it. This is not your father's crushing poverty. The lower-income kids in the deepest trouble are for the most part black, and those racialized "levels" are no longer an option in the public schools for good reasons. We forget that for lower-income African American kids, "crushing poverty" is the cumulative result of two decades of the drugFrog and Toadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06377542172335502858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-70046025265230680592012-05-29T16:19:53.333-04:002012-05-29T16:19:53.333-04:00Yuuuuup. On all counts.
My daughter's element...Yuuuuup. On all counts.<br /><br />My daughter's elementary school got Title I status this year. She's in a classroom where one of the students *should not be there at all* because he has a number of behavioral issues. He gets extra help and spends part of each day with a specialist, but when he's in the room, his behavior is so distracting and the teacher has to stop what she's BurntChromehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06055976331443607569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-31404383282686978442012-05-29T16:16:27.741-04:002012-05-29T16:16:27.741-04:00The problem can be fixed sooner when we realize th...The problem can be fixed sooner when we realize that- gasp - some people aren't cut out for more in life than asking "would you like fries with that". Kids nowadays are raised being told they're all smart and special and unique. Guess what? They aren't. Most are around average, 49% are below it. At some point "equal opportunity" got twisted into trying to InvertedSquarehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04704558162599421719noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-82037705077264043632012-05-29T16:03:32.755-04:002012-05-29T16:03:32.755-04:00To echo BurntChrome: this is MY kind of religion. ...To echo BurntChrome: this is MY kind of religion. Greta, you've NAILED it.The Contemplative Cynichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02088570661592922436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-61611224482281683952012-05-29T16:02:15.537-04:002012-05-29T16:02:15.537-04:00I agree about the IQ thing. I see kids who don'...I agree about the IQ thing. I see kids who don't have the IQ or EQ or whatever it is, to function. If they can't figure out where to buy a book, how in the world are they going to think analytically about their coursework that is so much more complicated than figuring out how to buy a book.The Contemplative Cynichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02088570661592922436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-41953069236360082762012-05-29T15:41:34.639-04:002012-05-29T15:41:34.639-04:00I do not know about IQ's. Hard work skills bea...I do not know about IQ's. Hard work skills beat brains any day. I am in a non-selective school, and I see kids denser than a sackfull of hammers making it. Not if they have to work 8 hours a day, thou.French Professeurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08062264385792788503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-82707888900996426702012-05-29T15:13:33.045-04:002012-05-29T15:13:33.045-04:00Ursula,
Unfortunately you're talking about t...Ursula, <br /><br />Unfortunately you're talking about the perils of mainstreaming, which doesn't work for kids that actually can sit down, shut up, and listen.<br /><br />Mainstreaming has funneled all the kids with less ability and/or problems in with the kids that have more ability and no problems. Who is helped by this? Not the kids that have more ability and no problems. <br /><br StellafromSparksburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17584701718285662953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-76989497542726573282012-05-29T14:11:45.634-04:002012-05-29T14:11:45.634-04:00Your ideal educational system perfectly describes ...Your ideal educational system perfectly describes what they're actually doing in Finland, with a few added things (teachers have autonomy on testing for one thing). You can't teach K-12 in Finland without an M.A. in an academic field, and not in education; once you've got your MA in your chosen subject then you can apply to get into their teacher's college. Teaching is a Merely Academichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00452389428113097744noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-65340040529549212112012-05-29T14:11:22.227-04:002012-05-29T14:11:22.227-04:00I am absolutely with you on Ed departments. My hus...I am absolutely with you on Ed departments. My husband got a teaching certification in his 40s and the courses were numerous and ridiculous. He uses his other degree (the one in his field) for teaching that subject and virtually nothing from the Ed program. But class sizes is another matter. In addition to all the children with ADD and other learning and behavioral issues (which I'm not so Untenured Ursulahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12107788326951579690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-47678910618995609842012-05-29T12:44:13.644-04:002012-05-29T12:44:13.644-04:00Greta--
The bottom line in all of this is that th...Greta--<br /><br />The bottom line in all of this is that though the colleges in the US are overall the best in the first world, the K-12 schools in the US are some of the worst.<br /><br />I blame this on the education departments in colleges everywhere. There is a vast dividing line in expectations at the K-12 level, and the quality of teaching that goes on there, and the expectations in StellafromSparksburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17584701718285662953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-32947992732609308332012-05-29T12:24:21.564-04:002012-05-29T12:24:21.564-04:00"The problem is that remediation--a.k.a. deve..."The problem is that remediation--a.k.a. developmental classes--are designed for students who need to boost skills before taking college-level work, and our colleges are seeing scores of students who need much more than a boost."<br /><br />OMG FUCK YES FUCK YES.<br /><br />YES. You are dead-on. All of it. Every word. Thank you.BurntChromehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06055976331443607569noreply@blogger.com