tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post6151874954154630532..comments2023-10-15T04:23:50.187-04:00Comments on College Misery: "Wanderer Somewhere" Sends Us This Proffie Appreciation.Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-36175795776379571092010-12-29T17:07:00.319-05:002010-12-29T17:07:00.319-05:00This whole conversation is getting increasingly bi...This whole conversation is getting increasingly bizarre, in part because Americans seem obsessed with the idea that there are strict "rights" and "wrongs" in grammar, as opposed to conventions and norms. In French, for example, one says that a mistake in grammar or spelling is "une faute," whereas a mistake in calculation is "un erreur." Une faute is a Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-75877184824970784792010-12-29T08:36:33.816-05:002010-12-29T08:36:33.816-05:00@Froderick: Did you read the article I linked to? ...@Froderick: Did you read the article I linked to? It enumerated S&W's many faults better than I could. But to summarize, "Elements of Style" displays a shocking ignorance of grammar. I'll give you two examples:<br /><br />1) They tell you to avoid the passive voice; but nearly all of their examples of passive voice are not, in fact, passive voice constructions. Indeed, my Angry Archiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07348431132289025339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-62977359541391829732010-12-29T06:08:58.623-05:002010-12-29T06:08:58.623-05:00@Stella:
I hope all the e-mail you get from stude...@Stella:<br /><br />I hope all the e-mail you get from students next semester is chock full of errors and borderline unreadable, because they think it's OK because it's "just e-mail."<br /><br /><br />@Archie:<br /><br />A "piece of shit"? I'd have hoped a man of your achievements would have come up with better. What are you going to rip into next, Norton's Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-44643278834657900372010-12-28T18:12:29.851-05:002010-12-28T18:12:29.851-05:00Poopie (too fun), if you already have reasonable p...Poopie (too fun), if you already have reasonable proficiency in your writing, Strunk and White has a bit of value but I really advocate going back to the basics and learning the nuts and bolts of grammar, something that shouldn't be difficult for a science proffie.Charlotte Issyvoohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11081140798331499819noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-1610660279715606492010-12-28T16:42:18.119-05:002010-12-28T16:42:18.119-05:00Good on ya Wanderer.
Archie et al - Oh crap. I j...Good on ya Wanderer.<br /><br />Archie et al - Oh crap. I just bought Strunk and White. And here I thought I was being a rather keen science prof by improving my own writing/grammar/style skills to foster a "do as I do" situation when I pummel my students to improve their abysmal writing (if I hear one more science student say "but I went into science so that I didn't have toProf Poopieheadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00997969128824319914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-71241351317271660252010-12-28T16:06:29.155-05:002010-12-28T16:06:29.155-05:00Froderick, I'm not desperate for affection, an...Froderick, I'm not desperate for affection, and you're not getting it. I noticed the errors. If that student had submitted the blog post as a paper I would have marked them.<br /><br />But taking great relish in pointing them out on a blog is, as I said, bad form. I really don't want people pointing out typos/mistakes I might make. Nor would I want someone correcting my English StellafromSparksburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17584701718285662953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-84196382347796321982010-12-28T14:35:05.946-05:002010-12-28T14:35:05.946-05:00Angry, I agree that Strunk and White is crap and f...Angry, I agree that Strunk and White is crap and for all the reasons you outline.<br /><br />Wanderer, stop apologizing. I was touched by your post and would welcome you in my class. Your writing shows real promise and you have a respect and willingness to learn that is rare. <br /><br />As a piece of friendly (not admonishing) advice, do brush up on comma splices. Any decent grammar textbook Charlotte Issyvoohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11081140798331499819noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-1230319921741402282010-12-28T14:24:44.948-05:002010-12-28T14:24:44.948-05:00And Strunk and White is still a piece of shit, eve...And Strunk and White is still a piece of shit, even at less than $10.Angry Archiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07348431132289025339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-22994438686773813752010-12-28T14:16:22.238-05:002010-12-28T14:16:22.238-05:00I think the context of the student's appreciat...I think the context of the student's appreciation outweighs my need to always be teaching and - in this case - punishing and denigrating his errors.<br /><br />I'd bet my 403b that if Wandered knew we were going to parse his sentences in this way, he would have said, "Hey, fuck this. 'Your' all assholes."<br /><br />And that'd be a shame, because the spirit of his W.T. Pfefferlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07522687306482305195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-87763347799712351092010-12-28T14:15:48.476-05:002010-12-28T14:15:48.476-05:00Definitely didn't notice my "your" m...Definitely didn't notice my "your" mistake, usually that is the one thing I don't mess up in my writing.*Takes note of it on error sheet* Thanks for pointing it out. As for "invented spelling" again sorry for all the atrocious mistakes, I am dyslexic and spelling/switching similar looking words is one thing I have been trying to improve/eliminate ever since I entered Wandererhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01192232930086078664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-1072088697154048882010-12-28T12:08:51.188-05:002010-12-28T12:08:51.188-05:00Can you people really be so starved for affection ...Can you people really be so starved for affection that you can overlook second-grade errors? Or are you too worn down by all the whining to be able to speak up, anymore? Or do you think "invented spelling" is OK? I absolutely cannot stand it when high school or college students don't know the difference between "your" for "you're," no matter what they'Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-34262510030887069392010-12-28T09:34:41.904-05:002010-12-28T09:34:41.904-05:00I should add that Strunk and White is not a piece ...I should add that Strunk and White is not a piece of shit merely because its authors did not understand grammar very well (although that is still the main reason). It is also not very helpful unless you already know how to write. In other words, it might have once functioned as a house-style manual for New Yorker writers who were already competent stylists, but beyond that it is utterly and Angry Archiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07348431132289025339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-32914840346748791072010-12-28T08:01:35.090-05:002010-12-28T08:01:35.090-05:00What Cal said.
Also, not to throw gasoline on the...What Cal said.<br /><br />Also, not to throw gasoline on the fire, but Strunk and White is, to put it mildly, a piece of shit. See this evisceration, which simply confirmed what many of us already knew:<br /><br />http://chronicle.com/article/50-Years-of-Stupid-Grammar/25497Angry Archiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07348431132289025339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-90753701893666297242010-12-28T02:25:08.569-05:002010-12-28T02:25:08.569-05:00"Hopefully" is perfectly fine with refer..."Hopefully" is perfectly fine with reference to the speaker in many dialects of English, including mine. (It is said to be more common among younger speakers, though: I'm 21, FWIW.) I agree that stuff like your/you're confusion in writing looks sloppy, but spelling/punctuation issues ≠ legitimate language change (which is happening all the time).<br /><br />Do the sticklers Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-19969939098938383972010-12-28T00:07:30.696-05:002010-12-28T00:07:30.696-05:00Thank you, Wanderer.Thank you, Wanderer.Mestopholitahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05933774057297302973noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-17310996124233924852010-12-27T22:59:27.099-05:002010-12-27T22:59:27.099-05:00I'm not an academic professor, I'm a condu...I'm not an academic professor, I'm a conductor, but even so, if somebody sat down at the piano and said "listen to this piece I want to play you to thank you for being my teacher" I sure as heck wouldn't mention that they played two B-flats that should have been naturals and fudged a scale or two. Not because I didn't notice them, or I thought it wasn't my duty as aAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-70956757432658319672010-12-27T22:36:38.167-05:002010-12-27T22:36:38.167-05:00I love you, Frod, truly, and have since way back w...I love you, Frod, truly, and have since way back when. And I really think there's a little merit in your position. <br /><br />But there's nothing about the Wanderer's blog post that would make me think he wasn't a decent enough student, and someone who might spell check a little if a grade were on the line.<br /><br />You are a teacher, but you aren't the Wanderer's Compound Calicohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00059155949950433688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-52907652466226308792010-12-27T22:03:03.961-05:002010-12-27T22:03:03.961-05:00No, I am not Wanderer's dad. I am Wanderer...No, I am not Wanderer's dad. I am Wanderer's teacher---that is how Wanderer addressed us all---and as a teacher, it is my duty to do my job! I also think the errors are -not- insignificant, particularly not since I recently read over 100 papers from college students, only about 10% of which were written at what used to be college level.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-53163998439912164282010-12-27T21:55:28.698-05:002010-12-27T21:55:28.698-05:00@Froderick:
I didn't say you were damaged, Fr...@Froderick:<br /><br />I didn't say you were damaged, Frod. Or that your parents damaged you. But you're not Wanderer's dad. And I think it's bad form to dog people about their (fairly insignificant) typos on a blog.StellafromSparksburghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17584701718285662953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-47893904700638509972010-12-27T20:41:31.113-05:002010-12-27T20:41:31.113-05:00Bless your heart, kiddo. Students like you make te...Bless your heart, kiddo. Students like you make teaching fun from time to time. Yeah, you had a few errors in your writing but, compared to most of the bilge I mark, they were nothing to get het up about. (Yes, that last sentence ends with a preposition.) You're in school to learn and you've got the basic talents and, perhaps even more importantly, the drive to do so; if I had you in my Charlotte Issyvoohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11081140798331499819noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-86041302666480470592010-12-27T19:15:28.836-05:002010-12-27T19:15:28.836-05:00@Stella:
Sorry, but I think you have it backwards...@Stella:<br /><br />Sorry, but I think you have it backwards. Both my parents were over 30 in the '60s, defined "uptight," and never hesitated to correct my grammar. It didn't damage me in any way: it helped. Don't you have more than enough students who don't know that sloppy writing makes them look, well, sloppy, no matter what it says?<br /><br />Also, I entered Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-72776535983997936992010-12-27T18:25:43.003-05:002010-12-27T18:25:43.003-05:00Learn to teach English As a Second Language...in o...Learn to teach English As a Second Language...in our particular corner of Hell, this is a highly marketable skill. My school has an 8-week program. <br /><br />...sorry, back to my episodes of Hoarders on the internetz...cmthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03814447289455034068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-26728330841748061572010-12-27T18:01:46.547-05:002010-12-27T18:01:46.547-05:00I take Wanderer at his/her word. Thanks for the sh...I take Wanderer at his/her word. Thanks for the shout out. I'm sure you're a cool student to have. Work hard.W.T. Pfefferlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07522687306482305195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-77357073911779302542010-12-27T17:34:11.211-05:002010-12-27T17:34:11.211-05:00Thanks, Wanderer, because of you I may not throttl...Thanks, Wanderer, because of you I may not throttle someone this spring semester. Stella's right, though, think about starting your own business.Ovreductdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13961540854552566493noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-72263853522354977252010-12-27T17:18:11.973-05:002010-12-27T17:18:11.973-05:00Oh, I'm not being hasty, Reg. I make $43,000 f...Oh, I'm not being hasty, Reg. I make $43,000 for a 4/4 load. I've been telling my students who want to be English majors that they should have a career other than academia in mind. Many's the day I've sat paying bills, wondering why the fuck I didn't go to law school like the rest of my classmates.BurntChromehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06055976331443607569noreply@blogger.com