tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post7728146399924889819..comments2023-10-15T04:23:50.187-04:00Comments on College Misery: From the University of Missouri (St. Louis) Current. January 1975.Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-81721787183495449662012-09-26T16:49:06.498-04:002012-09-26T16:49:06.498-04:00You're right that my perceptions/experience ma...You're right that my perceptions/experience may not be typical. Students at my community college have been among the poorest in a relatively well-off county for decades. I haven't seen a steady, decade-by-decade decline in their writing abilities, and neither have my colleagues. <br /><br />I think another part of what's going on is that college students aren't the same as theyPhiliphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05244643308698776814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-11100010619226910192012-09-26T16:32:19.928-04:002012-09-26T16:32:19.928-04:00@Cal: Could you please transform this into a vids...@Cal: Could you please transform this into a vidshizzle so I don't have to read three whole paragraphs? Or at least highlight the parts that will be on the test.Southern Bubba, Ph.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12050992903794385204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-62774763376327673022012-09-26T15:48:14.689-04:002012-09-26T15:48:14.689-04:00It can only be anecdotal evidence, of course, but ...It can only be anecdotal evidence, of course, but I've taught for 28 years, and spent a number of years as a writing program director. I have essays from students from the 80s, 90s, 00s, and 10s, and I would bet my life that a comparison of papers by any reasonable soul would show a decrease in writing ability - on any scale.<br /><br />Vocab. Definitely. Sentence construction and variety. Compound Calicohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00059155949950433688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-75479948213015477062012-09-26T15:41:24.752-04:002012-09-26T15:41:24.752-04:00The answer is #2. I try to remedy it by giving no ...The answer is #2. I try to remedy it by giving no credit to any papers with no names on them. So far I've been able to make every one stick, but the fighting involved is invigorating, to say the least.<br /><br />And of course, I wouldn't dare try this, if I didn't have tenure.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-57205290029904079742012-09-26T15:38:03.137-04:002012-09-26T15:38:03.137-04:00@Philip: I humbly propose that your perceptions ar...@Philip: I humbly propose that your perceptions aren't typical. Here in Fresno, I also get many working-class, first-generation college students. Even though their writing and other academic skills are so deficient because of their backgrounds, it quite literally can drive me to tears, at least they don't blame me when they don't do their homework. This a very refreshing respite from Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-54034218092567668422012-09-26T13:52:42.946-04:002012-09-26T13:52:42.946-04:00We started off with a discussion of whether studen...We started off with a discussion of whether students today write more poorly than they did in the past. I don't think they do.<br /><br />I really don't know ifstudent behavior has changed much because, fortunately, the working-class students at my school don't act as if they're entitled to anything at all. Of course, they come to class irregularly and unprepared. They don'Philiphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05244643308698776814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-31626035152273825972012-09-26T12:44:44.267-04:002012-09-26T12:44:44.267-04:00I'm not sure which website you have been readi...I'm not sure which website you have been reading, but I don't think most people on this blog have the tiniest shred of hope to have the kinds of students you just listed. Most of us would be happy if our students were respectful and made a good faith effort to learn. I can handle ill-prepared student if they are at least decent to me and don't ceat. I understand not everyone is as Academic Charlotte Annehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06617435890922621735noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-89294249469438476312012-09-26T12:09:46.186-04:002012-09-26T12:09:46.186-04:00Trouble as in not being able to spell their own na...Trouble as in not being able to spell their own names?<br /><br />Or trouble as in not bothering to write their names on their papers? That's just sloppy, and can be mitigated by an application of the lash (5-point deduction for not putting your name on your paper, <em>if</em> I can determine whose it is; otherwise you get a zero). My students are nobody's geniuses -- one of my colleaguesintrovert.profhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09042783611716432247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-19741710061946060002012-09-26T11:42:59.243-04:002012-09-26T11:42:59.243-04:00"Silverback McDeadwood had a meltdown."
..."Silverback McDeadwood had a meltdown."<br /><br />An ad hominem (and ageist) slur is the best you can come up with, Myth?<br /><br />Let me be real clear here: Students, especially younger ones, can be a pain in the ass. But they were a pain in the ass decades ago. They lack some basic skills today, and they did back then. There's no such thing as The Good Ole Days.<br /><br />If Philiphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05244643308698776814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-77913468659158733882012-09-26T06:27:22.842-04:002012-09-26T06:27:22.842-04:00Beginning with the introduction of digital electro...Beginning with the introduction of digital electronic calculators during Christmas of 1972 and continuing into the '80s, a debate swirled over their approriateness for use in science and mathematics classes, particularly what constituted cheating, particularly with programmable calculators. Now, of course, I'd be lynched if I suggested banning calculators, but then not a one of even the Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-59273131115352763102012-09-26T02:29:38.879-04:002012-09-26T02:29:38.879-04:00Except there wouldn't have been a whole lot of...Except there wouldn't have been a whole lot of babbling about technological overreach, I suspect. (Or were proffies of the 70s all wildly terrified of an impending takeover by electronic typewriters?) And the adjunct quagmire was only in its infancy back then. And universities tended to be run by people who recognized the key differences between a university and a corporation. <br /><br />Edna Expathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11438002061912782295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-52870896002972050142012-09-26T01:45:19.496-04:002012-09-26T01:45:19.496-04:00Silverback McDeadwood had a meltdown.
Silverback McDeadwood had a meltdown.<br /><br />The_Mythhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10621186404597424842noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-83616680832521719412012-09-26T00:25:37.980-04:002012-09-26T00:25:37.980-04:00Jesus H. Christ, but I'm starting to think tha...Jesus H. Christ, but I'm starting to think that y'all are as snowflakey as the students you (and me, too) love to complain about. I'm really sorry, Myth, Contemplative Cynic, et al, but I just can't provide you with a set of representative papers from 1973 so you could put them side-by-side with papers from today's students. But, take my word for it, most students back Philiphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05244643308698776814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-87120056034763272172012-09-25T23:18:17.546-04:002012-09-25T23:18:17.546-04:00It is specious logic to compare COMPLAINTS about s...It is specious logic to compare COMPLAINTS about student writing and the ACTUAL writing itself.<br /><br />Everyone asking for a side-by-side comparison is on the right track.<br /><br />Those of you making the excuse that the complaints are all the same seem to be missing something that the first group is trying to point out.The_Mythhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10621186404597424842noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-86041071296889079782012-09-25T22:19:16.081-04:002012-09-25T22:19:16.081-04:00I did indeed. Our President thought it hilarious, ...I did indeed. Our President thought it hilarious, our very religious Provost not so much.Paddingtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07952088638231881617noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-34764982566041404312012-09-25T22:04:08.215-04:002012-09-25T22:04:08.215-04:00I'd love a comparison of actual student placem...I'd love a comparison of actual student placement writing samples from 1975 to make a better assessment than the "National Enquirer."The Contemplative Cynichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02088570661592922436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-82501090172776872042012-09-25T22:02:36.612-04:002012-09-25T22:02:36.612-04:00I'm kind of happy if students can write three ...I'm kind of happy if students can write three paragraphs now, let alone three pages!The Contemplative Cynichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02088570661592922436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-23462808162037722192012-09-25T20:46:59.199-04:002012-09-25T20:46:59.199-04:00So that decline in SAT scores starting in the late...So that decline in SAT scores starting in the late '60s and continuing to this day isn't real, then? It's news to me. In my current class on physics for engineers, I am seeing something disturbing I haven't seen before: they have real trouble with writing their names on their homework.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-81253917116176921492012-09-25T19:08:39.790-04:002012-09-25T19:08:39.790-04:00Do you list it on your CV? If so, do you mention t...Do you list it on your CV? If so, do you mention the photo of Miss Valvoline on the opposite page?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-24802995627729944452012-09-25T18:46:10.160-04:002012-09-25T18:46:10.160-04:00Hey - I published a letter in Playboy, discussing ...Hey - I published a letter in Playboy, discussing an interview with Norman Mailer.Paddingtonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07952088638231881617noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-11022826888350244742012-09-25T18:12:44.120-04:002012-09-25T18:12:44.120-04:00I guess we're all done here. Goodbye. See you ...I guess we're all done here. Goodbye. See you over at TMZ.com.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-40605994250990863332012-09-25T18:01:55.185-04:002012-09-25T18:01:55.185-04:00Newsweek's 11/8/75 cover story was titled &quo...Newsweek's 11/8/75 cover story was titled "Why Johnny Can't Write." Lead sentence: "If your children are attending college, the chances are that when they graduate they will be unable to write ordinary, expository English with any real degree of structure and lucidity."<br /><br />In August, 1976, the Los Angeles Times published a three-part front page story, "Philiphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05244643308698776814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-4980950941665140472012-09-25T15:35:51.058-04:002012-09-25T15:35:51.058-04:00It would be interesting to know what "an acce...It would be interesting to know what "an acceptable three-page thesis" and a representative piece of writing demonstrating "critical and objective" thinking would have looked like in 1975. Fashions in both writing and thinking do change (for instance, if I were looking at a piece of legal writing from 1975, I might well have reason to suggest that it shows evidence of an Contingent Cassandrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08161652083031423415noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-28376208421220295892012-09-25T15:20:35.243-04:002012-09-25T15:20:35.243-04:00And cyclotrons, synchrotrons, and plutonium, if yo...And cyclotrons, synchrotrons, and plutonium, if you're being patriotic about it. There's even a transuranic element named after the place.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2883226237165701608.post-16080467846671546152012-09-25T15:10:58.185-04:002012-09-25T15:10:58.185-04:00Indeed, and that ridiculous reference to Berkeley,...Indeed, and that ridiculous reference to Berkeley, a place noted for its Marxists, pederasts, and stoners.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com