We have "wait lists" for our classes, for example. I am made aware of these several times before the start of a semester by the Registrar's office, and then several more times by a variety of young people who are "on" the afore-mentioned lists. I can review this list, see the young people and their names. I can see their waitlist ranking. I can note that Flipper Dunwoody was the first one on such list, and my college's software even shows me his ID photo. He looks lucid in it, happy, genial. I do not see a crack pipe nor a lacrosse stick. He seems like a gentleman from another time. He might be the next student representative to the United Nations, or perhaps he will change the tire on my auto when the right rear one finally gives up its last breath.The list may be full of wonderful people.
Yet, I rarely look at it. I know it exists. But I confess it is not for me. I already have a classroom full of young people. And it is not without true purpose that I use the word "full," because indeed 2 of my classes take up every single chair in my classroom, in addition to a chair we appropriated from a room across the hall.
Those students on my wait list are not my students, and I hope you not think it rude of me to make that distinction.
They need in to my class, of course. They have tales that would shame Ulysses. They've overcome and hurdled great matters, and now there is but one wrench in the works, one fly in the ointment, one speck of olive on an otherwise pristine cracker and cheese.
It is, Yaro. I stand in their way. I do not conscript to the overfill. I do not let the extras in my class. I do not sign the waiver, press the necessary button, or nod my head at the Registrar's attendant to let anyone in beyond who has made it in properly, through the channels.
I admit that I feel poorly about this at times, especially when a young person is able to dredge up the illusion of real emotion, sincerity, even a tear.
Q: Thus, I bring myself here today to ask you virtual colleagues if perhaps I've been making an error all these years, and if I should reconsider my "policy" on the waitlist. How do you face the cherubs when they come with their "late add" forms, their stories of woe? Do you let a few in, one or two, to assuage your self? Do you take as many as you have table space for? Or are you like me, Yaro, perhaps colder on this matter than is necessary, and blockade the list people at your door?
A: I appreciate your replies below in the commenting element of the page.
what we really need is a moat!
ReplyDeleteI'm contemplating an evil schtick on day one, Monday, to scare everyone away, enrolled and waitlisted. I want to appear such a monster that they run to the internet to drop me and add some other sucker to their roster of classes they won't fricking attend but in which they want A's. Scare them all away--that's my philosophy.
ReplyDeleteMy classes are about 5-7 students MORE than the governing body for my discipline recommends. Taking MORE than I am forced to is not something I even consider.
ReplyDeleteNope. As soon as you start taking more, administration thinks that means you can ALWAYS teach more, so class sizes go up. The only exception I make is if one of my former decent students approaches me, and even then I won't go more than one over max. That way I have a known quantity as well as someone who will help me get the rest of the class used to my routines. Plus having a vet come back shows the others that it's not impossible.
ReplyDeleteOne of the reasons that I gave up teaching (for now) is that students don't sign up for my classes unless they are required. They flock to certain (former) colleagues' classes where they can get a B for showing up, an A for not listening to their iPod during class. This is all in spite of my reputation among the undergrads as someone "you can learn a lot from."
ReplyDeleteSo glad to see you back, Yaro.
ReplyDeleteI never take extra students when it's undergrads. I feel for them, because funding cuts have meant that the classes they need to graduate are sometimes not offered, or fill in the first hour. But I have no intention of offsetting the administration's idiocy with my free labor.
I have taken extra grad students, but the other ones punished me for it in evaluations. So I'm firm with them as well, with an exception of only one student and only if it's dire.
I sometimes go one or two over the limit at the very beginning of the semester, but only because I know that there will be some adding and dropping during the (much too long) add/drop period, and students who add two weeks into the semester tend to be the flakiest of snowflakes.
ReplyDeleteI also turn away students who email me a long story about why my section (among many, many others of the same required composition course) is the only one that will possibly fit their schedules. I started reminding those inquirers of the rule of thumb for homework in college classes -- 2-3 hours of work outside the classroom for every hour in the classroom -- and asking whether they had scheduled sufficient preparation(and sleep) time. I rarely get a reply to those emails.
I will take some, because a good numbeer of people drop the first week when they realize that they will have to work. after that, I balance my genuine liking for my department chair and colleagues against my desire not to give the administration free labor. I usually wind up taking a couple if my colleagues really vouch for them. Yes, I'm a labor wuss and should hang up my card.
ReplyDeleteI always tell the e-mail beggars, "Let's wait and see what happens. Start showing up to class and doing the work, and we'll see if something opens up in the first week."
ReplyDeleteMost never show. A few do show on the first day, and a fraction of those actually begin participating and show up on the second and third days.
By the end of the third class (it's a MWF class, so we're only talking about a one-week timeline here), either dropouts have made room for those who've been sitting in, or I just add them anyway and go a tiny bit over my limit. This process almost never leaves me with an overfull class, though one semester I did take 23 students for a 15-person class, and I just have to hope I'm not faced with that dilemma again. I hate having to choose who gets in and who doesn't.
My Registrar's Office has wait lists, but they're--I'm not kidding--ALPHABETICAL. They're meant to be organized by day, but EVERYONE SIGNS UP ON THE SAME DAY, and apparently ordering them by time is impossible. So they resort to the alphabet. I've explained to students on numerous occasions, "I'm sorry, I know the Registrar's Office told you you were on the wait list, but what they didn't tell you--or anyone--is that the wait list means nothing."
Oh, and get this--on the first day of class, the Registrar's Office DISCARDS THE WAIT LIST and leaves no trace. If I go online at midnight the previous night and print it, I'll end up with some kind of list of names, albeit an alphabetical one. But if I forget, when students ask me where they fall on the list, I can only tell them that they'll never know, but it wouldn't matter anyway.
Repeated suggestions for how to improve their system have not been implemented.
Gladys -
ReplyDeleteThe evil schtick works. I generally lose 5-10% of those that attended the first day, all because I have standards. Damn me!
I'm actually a little surprised I need to do the evil schtick (isn't schtick a great word), since I've had a reputation of being a hard-ass since almost day one of working at my podunk CC. Apparently word doesn't get around as fast as it used to.
My answer is, "Do as I say, not as I do," because I almost always overfill my class with these "desperate" students. T
ReplyDeleteAnd then those overfilled students end up being the laziest and most problematic people in the room.
I tell myself, "Self, learn from this."
Yet, I just added 2 girls a minute ago because they were so DESPERATE to get my 10 am class. They HEARD how WONDERFUL and NURTURING I was, and I fell for it...
AAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!
I don't add students because doing so subverts students who actually follow our college protocols--which is waiting for spaces to open after purges for nonpayment or after students drop. That's really too much tampering on my part, and it tends to reward problem snowflakes,as Bernice points out.
ReplyDeleteAs for the evil schtick, I haven't used it for years as it sets a combative tone for the class and tends to compel students who care about their grades or who are more delicate to drop. And, guess what? Their spaces get taken by late adds who haven't bothered to register on time. Just who I want in my class.....
Before you add a student, as yourself if that student would do hours upon hours of work on your behalf, completely uncompensated.
ReplyDeleteIf the answer is "yes," let 'em in.
Damn, Bernice, one/both of them called you "nurturing?" That should have triggered the snowflake detector (or at the very least caused a nipple twitch at the impending snowflake suckling that will surely commence). I'm probably preaching to the choir, but "nurturing" is synonymous with "zOMG, like, she's totally a pushover and stuff; you can, like, totally get away with whatever you want, just as long as you act sorry!"
ReplyDeleteHopefully you won't need it, but good luck to you!
/me vomits @ "nurturing."
I miss Yaro's big face!!!!
ReplyDeleteI'm with Jimmy, however, on the Bernice thing. I do see Bernice knows she "fell" for it, but an ALARM must go off when someone who doesn't know us blows smoke up our ass!
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ReplyDeleteI don't sign in extra students for the simple fact that I don't have the seats, and it drives me insane when profs let students in when they don't have the seats. They end up doing what Yaro does - poaching desks from my room so the first ten minutes of every one of my class meetings turn into a 'hunt down the desks that already should be in our room were it not for some asshat who stole them.' Either that, or I have students who end up sitting on the floor.
ReplyDeleteLet me say that nothing is better than walking into a classroom with 20 desks and 25 students.
I have a limitation based on the fire code (we certainly don't want to go past the posted limit, do we?) and that's normally what is set for our class sizes.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I have a large room for one of my classes this semester and I did let ONE student in. She was someone who I knew was motivated (having had her in two previous classes). And.. I fully expect some drops after they read(?) my syllabus-from-the-depths-of-Mordor.
Everywhere I worked, the overrides lists were automatic; I couldn't/can't take on more students even if I want to.
ReplyDeleteWhen I was an undergrad, I begged for an override at least three times. I got it once. I got an A in that class; I loved it and that prof. I'm grateful she let me know. The other two profs were ones I knew, but they both followed policy -- I could only join if someone else dropped. I understand and respect, and didn't get into those classes.
I had a friend who took a science class with an Indian professor. Throughout the first week, he spoke in a thick accent. At the end of the week, only half of the class was left. He switched to his normal accent (he was American, born to Indian parents) and said, "Okay, now that only the serious ones are left, let's get to work."
I don't sign extras in because that means there might be less enrollment next term for me to have work.
ReplyDeleteOphelia, that Indian science prof is awesome.
ReplyDeleteI've never added an extra student. My classes are heavily computer-dependent, so if (number of students) > (number of computers), then all hell breaks loose.
ReplyDeleteAt my university, the "system" handles the waiting list for the first two weeks, and I do nothing to manually override it and let someone into my class. After two weeks, I still do nothing to manually override it and I won't admit someone into my class because a) it's two weeks in and they've missed a lot, and b) I'd rather have less stuff to grade than more and c) I'm not doing the paperwork necessary to add someone.
ReplyDeleteIn short, I will take the route that means the least work for me, since the university takes the route that pays me the least money.
One of the wonderful things about being in the sciences (and there are many) is that the size of my class is dictated by the size of the lab room. I can claim to be sorry about being unable to help them in their moment of great need, but it's not really me preventing them from attaining their desire after all. So sorry.
ReplyDeleteYes, I am perhaps colder than is necessary, but my coldness is of the inward variety. I present my 'caring but incapable of helping you" persona. 'Wow, man. So you really need my class so you can graduate on time and it's like super-important, but you didn't think to register for it until the third class day? Of course. You were in Cancun until yesterday. I understand completely. Unfortunately, there's nothing I can do.'
ReplyDeleteI tell them, "Sorry, we're full."
ReplyDeleteIf they persist, I tell them, "Sorry, we're FULL."
If they persist more, I tell them, "SORRY, we're FULL!"
Hope springs eternal, particularly in the hearts of many 18-year-olds. If they persist even more, I tell them to ask our department secretary. She's very good at telling them, "SORRY, WE'RE FULL!!!"