I'm a baby prof who just started a job at a big R1 six weeks ago. My load is low, but I decided to teach in my first semester so that I can get it over with. I like teaching--or at least can stand it most of the time. But as the joke goes, I hate the students.
Oh sure, there are the 20% who study, who work, who nod their heads and act interested. Every day, I want to give them a hug. They are the ones who keep me going.
And how about the rest? There are the ones who sit there the whole class sneering at me? And there's the group of kids who surf facebook and show each other the pages even though I told them ON THE FIRST DAY that laptops, iPads, etc. are banned--and then tell me on the midterm evals that one of the ways "the instructor can help you learn" is to let them"be adults" and surf the web peace while I'm talking. Then there's the busty blonde who talks to her neighbor while I'm explaining a concept, and then raises her hand and insists that I repeat what I just said, because she didn't get it. And how about the ones who sneak out as soon as my back is turned.
I really wasn't ready for how much I'd absoultely hate these students. How I wish I were tenured so I could discipline them in the way they deserve and tell them that sneering at me isn't going to make the period go by any faster. I've heard that some profs give a nice little end of the semester speech after evals are in; they tell the snowflakes that it's time to grow up and that if they keep up this kind of attitude, they'll get fired before they can find the restroom.
On a different note, here's a thirsty to those of you who have been teaching for much longer than I: Have students really been getting whinier and more entitled over the last decade--or the last few decades?
I can't answer the thirsty, being relatively new myself, but I will say this - I'm always amazed at the vitriol the bad students engender from other profs. Who cares? Unless they are actively distracting other kids, I just ignore them. They get bad grades and I never see them again. What's to get annoyed about? They ignore me, don't listen to me, and generally don't give a damn about what I have to say. Okay, my cats are the same way. Big deal. I mean, I don't begrudge anyone their hatred of these kids, I just don't GET it.
ReplyDeleteIf they're surfing giggling with their neighbor over a Facebook page, they're distracting other students and encouraging them to do the same.
ReplyDeleteThey have been getting whinier. I've been teaching for close to ten years now and I already miss the good ole days. Heck, even my spouse has commented many times that my loathing for my students has gotten worse and worse as each year passes. Could be me but I think a lot of it has to do with the self-entitlement issues with Gen Y.
ReplyDeleteIt wouldn't be so bad if 20% of my students actually did the work. That would make it worth teaching. I'm lucky nowadays to get maybe one or two students in a class of thirty who actually gives a shit about their education. I'm forced to grade papers that show reading and writing skills of a sloth when I know these kids could do the work if they just put a smidge of the same effort they put into Facebook games. Ten years ago I didn't have these issues. Now I've come to dread getting up in the morning and grading their crap.
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ReplyDeleteIn response to your thirsty, have a beer a la this vidshizzle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h23VoIOH9Y&feature=related
ReplyDeleteGet past the first 20 seconds. It's gold.
I don't want to be bitchy, but you're not doing yourself any favors by not enforcing your "no electronics" rule. You don't have to slam their laptops shut or yell at them in the middle of your lecture. Just a simple stare, going quiet, or a few fingertips on their desk and a "put it away" whisper do wonders.
ReplyDeleteThat and participation points. They only work if you tell them about mid-semester what they have, otherwise they bitch and whine at the end of the semester and pretend they never ever did those horrible things you're saying they did.
At this point in the semester you may just have to deal with it but something to consider for next semester.
You have to screech at them in German....DU, DU, DU, DU SCHWEINE! ICH WILLE MIT MEINE FAUST DEIN KOEPFE SCHLAGEN! KUSS MEIN ARSCH, JUNGE! And so on.
ReplyDelete"Just a simple stare, going quiet, or a few fingertips on their desk and a "put it away" whisper do wonders."
ReplyDeleteI did. I told them to put it away--hence the comment on the midterm eval about how I should "treat them like adults."
@Primping Professor:
ReplyDelete"If they're surfing giggling with their neighbor over a Facebook page, they're distracting other students and encouraging them to do the same."
Well, clearly, that shit needs to stop. The reason I qualified the statement as I did was that I have some kids I KNOW are surfing the web, but they sit in the back, alone and apart from each other, and they do it quietly. I don't understand what they're doing here, but, hey, it's not my tuition money. I don't care.
That, though - that needs to end. You could kick 'em out of class, as one of my colleagues does. I just make a letter grade's worth of points "scholarship" points, and tell them they'll get docked exactly when and if I see them not maintaining decorum in the classroom. I also tell 'em I won't let 'em know WHEN I'm doing it... freaks the little buggers right out. They're very paranoid about it.
If you're at an R1 don't agonize this much about your evals. Don't deflect attention away from the key requirement: you need to publish, and publish well. If you don't, good evals won't save you. If you do, some bad evals won't sink you.
ReplyDeleteAnd another truth: overall your students will respect you if you enforce reasonable rules. So, you explain the rules, why they're there, how they are for the benefit of the class, and then you enforce them. They're useless if you don't, and the good students whose attention and alliance you wish to keep will end up not taking you seriously.
In my class this means that if a person opens any electronic device, or sleeps, talks with friends, etc., they silently get marked absent. If they are being distracting I tell them to cut it out AND mark them absent.
Like children, students are happier with parents/teachers they can respect. If you want to be your child's "friend" that's not good for either of you. You can be friends when you don't have to tell them what to do. I have plenty of friends that are ex-students. I make it a point to have zero friends among my current ones.
If I were you, I would immediately start your next class by saying: "Many of you are not observing the class policy on electronics and are opening your iPads, computers, etc., during class. That will stop now, because it is distracting to the other students. Those not obeying this rule will be market absent and asked to leave. From now on, as well, we will be taking attendance at the beginning and end of class. You are required to attend the entire class if you want credit for being here."
It helps as well to have an ironclad syllabus. If you're just winging it the little shits will smell blood and descend on you like the selfish harpies they are.
I think overall the "entitlement factor" varies. I used to teach at a private school attended by rich white kids, who were the children of rich white kids. Lots of entitlement. Now, I don't. Not so entitled.
Part of the problem is the instantaneous culture we live in. Students, like everyone else, are impatient. There's more to distract them. 30-year-olds get shaky without constant access to their smartphones as well.
Dear PP,
ReplyDeleteYes, seemingly every year, the students get more, and more, and MORE immature. And many faculty are expected to do more, and more, and more about it.
You may not be, because you're at an R1, where research is your top priority by definition. Much depends on how your department chair, Dean, and Provost support you, or fail to do so. For an example of a very bad case where they did not, see "Generation X Goes to College," by Peter Sachs. Keep in mind that he was at a community college with far less emphasis on research, and that it was written nearly 15 years ago: if anything, things have gotten much worse since then. Your higher-ups may respond in the way I’ve seen higher-ups at many R1s respond: they’ll tell you to stop wasting so much time on teaching, and to pull in more external grants!
Another source on the decline of college standards that is better documented is "The New Generations: Students Who Don't Study," by Henry Bauer. It's available here:
http://www.bus.lsu.edu/accounting/faculty/lcrumbley/study.htm
Again, much depends on your particular situation, but as Stella observes, you need to concentrate on publishing and bringing in those grants. Education is a fine thing, but you don't need to care more about your students' education than they do. If you can get away with it, let them sink or swim, at least until you have tenure. I often wonder whether this approach to education isn’t genuinely better: all the hand-holding faculty find themselves doing at less research-intensive universities I think may be counterproductive. It often allows students to be very childish: indeed, it positively encourages them. People grow up quicker when they have to.
As Stella also observes, being firm, fair, and consistent with classroom discipline may get howls of protest from the offenders, but if your chair and Dean do their jobs and tell them to grow up, you’re better off than most of us here on CM are, and the minority of good students in your classes will appreciate you for it. It also helps to have a big, thick syllabus that is carefully checked for loopholes.
Good luck!
P.S. Keep in mind that many of your students will have seemingly no memory at all, so anything you said on the first day will be long forgotten. Look at them, during you next class: many aren't even taking notes: it simply doesn't occur to many of them, even though they've all been told to do so (and all of them will deny it). Many of them don't like to read, and can't be made to read, no matter what. Many of them write on 7th grade level, and can't do 4th grade math (e.g. they can't solve 1/2 + 1/4 = ?). They need not concern you at all, until you have tenure, and even maybe not after then.
ReplyDeleteI think that Stella has a great point. For a while, my teaching evals were a source of agony for me...I worried. A lot. And then I decided that while I do love teaching, teaching is not the only thing I do and I will not let the thoughts of little ones define my sense of self-worth. Further, I tell the students that the point of evals is to help me improve the class for students after them...therefore I need CONCRETE SUGGESTIONS. That actually seems to help...they report on readings they liked, films they didn't, etc.
ReplyDeleteI also hand out a "supplementary" evaluation that lists the readings, etc. and asks them to circle their favorite 3 and their least favorite 3. This seems to convince them that this is abotu the class and not about being mean-spirited little shits.
Re: the talkers. I have talkers. Big-time. In a 190-person class. I've tried glaring. I've tried talking to them after class. Today, I'm separating them. I feel like a kindergarten teacher, but it has to happen, and happen now.
Wish me luck, and I wish you the same.
I think BlackDog's advice is spot-on. Also, if you give out a midterm evaluation that they can fill out, you can report back as to 1) what you are changing in response to their feedback (and I always change one thing) and 2) why you have the policies they grump about.
ReplyDeleteBut I have taught at an R1 for 10 years and have sat on about 10 tenure cases, and I know that while so-so evaluations may get a negative mention in your review materials, they have *never* cost anyone tenure.
And yes, students have gotten worse in the past decade. Less prepared, squirrelier, and considerably less mature. It's not you. I blame the invention of the iPhone for the attention issues, and No Child Left Behind for the bad preparation. The immaturity is a mystery. Something in the drinking water?
Have students been getting whinier and more entitled? According to the New York Times, possibly: "From Students, Less Kindness for Strangers?"
ReplyDeleteI used to have a problem with texting and the like until last semester when I told them that I would take a point off of their final grade for each class I observed them texting. Just telling them to put their phone/laptop away won't do a thing. When you observe them the first time, let them know that you saw and that you plan on sticking to the policy. Then tell them that you have no intention of informing them every time you observe the behavior. If they want to risk texting, then they'll likely end up with a seriously reduced final grade at the end of the semester. I actually got my department chair to approve the policy, so I know the admin will back me up.
ReplyDeleteIf you threaten to hit them hard in the final grade, they'll stop.
I'm no silverback, but I have been teaching at various places for 20 years now. I began at a small liberal arts college, went to an R1, and then moved on to CCs. I'm at a CC now.
ReplyDeleteYes, the students are whinier. I wish I could just write it off to their age/generation, but it's not just the babyflakes. No, they're all all whinier, adults (like those 30, 40 and older) included.
The difference between the young whiners and the old whiners is (imo) the brazen apathy about school I see from the young whiners. When I tell them requirements, they whine...and then they ignore them, shrug their shoulders, and just don't care. The older crowd whines but seems to give a shit.
As for your current students, do what you have to do to get them to stop disrupting class. I don't have large lectures, but I do have students who sit mere feet away from me and do what yours do with electronic devices and giggling. I kick them out. Period. The end. And before they return, they have to meet with me about their disruptive behavior. Second offense is a complaint to the Registrar's office. I rarely have to get to the official complaint stage.
It's not about them. It's about the course. Period. The end. I have to teach the course to more than just the misbehaving flakes.
As for leaving early, I've solved this by giving out homework only at the end of class (I no longer put it all in the syllabus), and giving low-stakes quizzes and writing assignments at the end of class. Half the time, the offending students literally don't know what they're missing.
I don't mean this to sound condescending, but toughen up. You'll be doing yourself and the students who give a shit big favors.
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ReplyDeleteInstitute the smackdown on the first day and don't let up. You owe it to the rest of us.
ReplyDelete1. Yes, read Generation X Goes to College. I read it a week ago. Yes, the first part is excellent and I directly relate to it, and the last half is obvious sociology.
ReplyDelete2. I take off 5/1000ths of their grade every time they violate any rules of conduct, and they know that I will sometimes tell them, and sometimes NOT. That's their fucking problem.
3. If you tell them you'll take off "X" points for "Y" behavior, and you DO it, and do it publicly, the behavior will usually stop FAST.
4. ALWAYS follow through on threats of penalties when the rules are broken. If you bluff, you're fucked.
5. Tell them WHY you have the rules you do.
6. Have a monster syllabus, and as another poster said, check it for loopholes, since they WILL try to find them. I've been told by an ex-Special Forces soldier who is now my student that my syllabus reads like the one in his military training courses. "If you do 'X,'Y' will happen. This is NOT negotiable."
7. Go hard the first day and let them know you have a line that better not be crossed. Nip the crap in the bud EARLY and OFTEN.
8. Ignore those who fuck around in class but are not disruptive. Come down firmly on those who disrupt the class.
9. As one poster said way, way back... "Don't over-care." Over-caring about your students is the fast lane to burnout. Triage them in your mind and let the losers lose and the winners win.
10. Similar to number 9. Form a healthy emotional detachment from your students. Save your attachment to outcomes and student behaviors for RARE situations, and generally let the students sort themselves out.
11. Similar to number 10. You are a filter for our society. Flunk those who suck, and pass those who deserve it.