I teach on and off at a couple of tier 97 schools. At the slightly better state college, they let me teach whatever I want, as long as there is a need. At the slightly worse CC, you have to have at least an MA in something to teach it. So even though they don't teach beyond 11th grade math at the CC, and even though I've successfully taught pre-algebra and pre-calculus at the state college, since I don't have an MA in math, I can't teach math at the CC. Even though my research is in p-chem, and even though I've taught physics at the state college a billion times, and even though I teach physics more successfully than I teach chemistry, I don't have an MA in physics so I can't teach physics. But I want to teach physics so badly I can taste it. And the physics adjuncts drift in and out of that department like feral dogs, with rabies and or brain damage. I'm considering going to near by state university (not state college) for an MA in physics so I can return to CC and teach physics on a regular basis. So here is the question... (let me see if I can get the thirsty formatting correct):
Q. Would you consider getting, or have you gone ahead and obtained, another degree in order to get more variety in your teaching load or to teach a course (or courses) closer to your heart than what they let you currently teach (or previously taught)?
I guess this question is geared toward adjuncts and people in teaching heavy/research light positions. But I was wondering if that's a crazy idea, or if I should do it if I think it might be more satisfying.
This is one of those areas where those of us working in CC's get the short end of the stick. Accreditors pay far more attention to who is teaching a class at a CC then they do at a four-year institution.
ReplyDeleteThat being said, I have done just as you ask. I was certified to teach in political science and over the course of my career I have become certified (it takes 18 graduate credit hours in the SACS region) in two other fields. It leads to variety in my teaching load and it has made me marginally more indispensable to the institution, which is always a plus.
Some regional accreditation bodies specifically note the MA requirement. If non-MA people teach those courses, your CC could lose its regional accreditation. Of course, this is completely impractical, but that's bureaucracy for you.
ReplyDeleteIf you can get one of the institutions to sponsor your return for the 18 credits, just do it. What's bad about having more school? After 11 years of high education, I wouldn't mind going back myself.
(ps, gooner, hope that's an arsenal reference)
It's the same at my school. You have to have 18 credit hours in your discipline to teach it, even if you're a fucking moron who can't teach. They don't care if you can teach--they only care about the paper. Typical bureaucratic insanity. So we have a lot of shitty teachers with the right credentials. Oh well.
ReplyDeleteI've thought of going back for more school, but I do NOT want to pay for it in this economy. We'll see.
I know lots of people who've gone back for a higher degree in order to get a promotion, a raise, and/or to teach a wider variety of classes. Go for it.
ReplyDeleteI don't get why it's a bad idea to require a master's degree in a subject for anyone to teach at the college level.
ReplyDeleteSo, go back for the master.
@Academic Monkey -- It absolutely is. Come on you Gunners!
ReplyDeleteI've thought about it, but haven't done it -- don't want to pay for it (my job won't reimburse me) and grad school made me crazy. If I go back, it better be for a good reason.
ReplyDeleteI sometimes beat myself up for not taking 18 hours of X when I was in grad school, but then I remember my load was heavy enough (I had to do 12 hours for my stipend). I don't know where those 18 hours would have fit.
I've occasionally contemplated pursuing a Ph.D. in the rapidly-growing field in which I teach (composition and rhetoric), to supplement my more traditional literature Ph.D. I've also contemplated M.A.s or Ph.D.s that might allow me to teach writing in specialized grad schools and/or programs that intrigue me. But it's all been entirely speculative (I'm not sure any of the above would actually make me more marketable, and my current employer considers me to have a terminal degree relevant to my job). Besides, I'm pretty sure that holding two Ph.D.s is a sign of insanity (though whether madness is a cause or an effect I'm not certain).
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteArg. Can't correct mistakes without deleting post.
ReplyDeleteCorrected Version:
But Cassandra, if you become a double Ph.D., then Germans will call you "Doktor Doktor," not just "Frau Doktor." Of course, that only applies auf Deutsch, but still...
A few questions:
ReplyDeleteWhy do so many schools hire people who are clearly unqualified to teach in certain subjects? (I've done it too...and to the detriment of my career. Having a BA in English does NOT automatically make me a qualified writing instructor for my discipline. I spent more time teaching myself to be a better writing prof for basket weavers than I did prepping for comps...which never happened because I was too busy trying to do my job adequately so I could pay my rent.)
And where do they offer a Master of ARTS degree for Physics? Mathematics, maybe. But PHYSICS?
Oh, and why do some of you think a school would be willing to sponsor an adjunct (I presume you meant "pay for tuition") when that very school is most likely underpaying said adjunct and probably doesn't even want to fund their own grad students properly? We must live in radically different worlds....
The MA is the minimum requirement listed in a general set of guidelines for all departments. most of those departments would be taking people with MAs. Yes, in physics it would be an MS. Yes, I did transcribe it as MA when I got to the bottom of my intro.. Yes, you caught my idiotic error in full caplock glory. Here is yours. CC stands for "community college". And there are no GRAD STUDENTS to underfund at community college.
ReplyDeleteWombat, please check your gruffness at the door before you fall further into the pit of snowflakiness.
ReplyDeleteYou used the initials "MA" throughout your entire post, not just as an accident at the end (which, btw, is the lamest excuse I have heard from someone who wasn't one of my crappy students). In only one instance did you correctly state that you did not have an MA in Math, which I know is offered as an MA at some schools.
Did you bother to re-read what you wrote before "correcting" me? Or were you offended that I, as an act of curiosity, inquired about the degree you claimed you needed?
Also, you say in your first paragraph that you also teach at a "slightly better state college." Last time I checked, that does not specifically imply a community college. Do you not teach there now? Because I am assuming it was to that statement that Academic Monkey was wondering you might find recourse to find a sponsor (as in, you had more than one option in addition to the CC - oh, that's right...C O M U N I T Y C O L L E G E).
I think you should stop teaching because you seem to have problems with reading and writing. You sound like an incompetent boob who is taking full advantage of schools' desire to have a warm body in front of the classroom instead of someone who is competent IN THAT SPECIFIC FIELD. This may be a common practice, (and, as I admitted, I fell into that trap too), but, really, you're not owed anything if you don't have the right credentials. It's a little lie we all learn in grad school that our superiors conveniently claim they never heard of (usually because the rules weren't in place back when they were just starting out in the dark ages of the 1980s).
Or you could just go back to school and maybe you'll learn to communicate more clearly by the time you get those 18 credits of grad-level Physics under your belt.
What needs to be checked at the door is your gratuitous condescention.
ReplyDeleteI repeatedly said MA instead of MS.
But I read you correctly from the get go. You can lie to yourself about having a curiousity. But you're just one of many people who come here to find pseudopeers to look down on to raise yourself. You have the reading comprehension issues, and they're pretty obvious. Did YOU re-read anything?
You've read in a deep subcontext of my selfdelussion that I have a qualification that I lack, when the whole bleeping question is whether or not I should go out and get that qualification. This isn't a pullitzer prize novel, the story isn't anywhere near as interesting as you want it to be.
I specifically said: "so I can r e t u r n t o C C and teach physics on a regular basis." (I put in extra spaces because that must be what your IEP says to do when something is confusing, becuase I see that's how you handled wrapping your head around "community college".)
And to refresh your memory, there still are no grad students in community college. You misread it from the start, but you want to compare me to one of your students. You're probably one of those all-the-way-up-to-the-dean flakes who will have an excuse for this too.
Basically, you're one of many people who comes here looking for people to call out for stupidity or for using an incorrect term, because you're miserable and frustrated with your job and you can't actually get away with venting your "I'm so much smarter than everyone in the universe" frustrations on students without losing that job.
The sad thing is, forums like this for fans of sports teams, tv shows, people who work in fashion and a whole slate of other community defining criteria, are no worse than this one. And this is supposed to be a group of professionals.
ps even your students and I can handle a Google search: http://www.postgraduatesearch.com/ma/physics/uk/study/postgraduate-browse.htm
ReplyDeleteBB and Wombat seem a bit hysterical at the moment. Keep in mind, this is a really trivial point.
ReplyDeleteNeither of you need to stop teaching over this miscommunication.
If people are purely adjuncting, they probably can't get anyone to sponsor them to get the 18 credits certificate. Hell, they probably can't even get insurance. However, if you are attached to a university as Wombat seems to be, you can sometimes qualify for extra training so the university gets to offer more without hiring new people or creating a new department.
Some industries provide funding so that there is more instruction in the area for a particular kind of science. And some universities allow their instructors to take classes free of charge -- so you might be able to take one course per semester and get those 18 credits in 3 years, free of charge.