Like every semester, I give out an assignment on plagiarism the first week of the semester. Guess what? One snowflake plagiarized his work on the plagiarism assignment.
I am amazed at this also! I used to give an assignment on the syllabus and the online evil program from hell we used for the class. This assignment would include a question asking for the definition of plagiarism. Not only would they plagiarize the syllabus (If they bothered to even read it or they just made shit up for answers), they would plagiarize the definition of plagiarism. I wanted to put a bonus question of "What is irony?" LOL
I used to teach a tutor training course for the Writing Center. By the end of the course they were working in the WC, tutoring students, making handouts for us...
Their final paper was to write an essay related to the course topics, and one student that I had already identified as "Shitheel" chose to write about plagiarism.
And then plagiarized the fuck out of it.
And then, when challenged on it by me, claimed that the graduate students in the WC he had taken the paper to for help had told him to do it that way. He knew the right way, but they told him wrong and he listened.
Early-in-the-semester plagiarism is definitely especially dispiriting. You can't tell yourself that they were overwhelmed with work an panicking, or certain from earlier grades that you hate them and panicking, or whatever. They're just being slimy, and who wants to spend the rest of the semester interacting with somebody slimy on a regular basis?
@Bitchy: I don't think many of them recognize that definitions are intellectual work, will vary by source, etc., etc., and so need to be put in quotation marks. They think they're just facts. Still, yes, it's frustrating, and ironic.
I keep telling students in my Intro Astronomy class that I'll change my mind about flying saucers when someone can bring me compelling evidence, such as technology left behind clearly not of Earthly origin, such as a ray gun that can actually vaporize someone. Such an item would be handy for plagiarists, especially ones THIS egregious. It'd do a lot of damage to the paint and wallpaper, though.
@Froderick - I'm assuming that any sufficiently advanced technology could take out the plagiarist without leaving any traces on the paint and wallpaper.
BP- Expecting students to explicitly cite the syllabus on a quiz that specifically covers the syllabus seems unreasonable to me. Do you actually treat this like plagiarism (e.g. failing/expelling the student)?
Starting this semester, every piece of written work they turn in has a statement saying they understand the definition of plagiarism, that the work they're turning in is their own, and that they realize if they plagiarize once, they will fail the whole course.
@Merely: No, I WANT it to do LOTS of damage to the paint and wallpaper! I WANT it not to be magical, but clearly physical! I want there to be just enough time for the little shits to scream before turning into a cloud of smoke, so I can giggle! Now THAT would be an application of technology clearly of benefit to decent human beings everywhere!
We've had a similar "no-plagiarism pledge" in place for a few years in our department and it has helped. The savvier kids avoid cheating (at least in obvious ways) and the truly stooopid still do it, but we can pull out their pledge with a flourish and fail them. I did have a student who plagiarized a homework answer from Yahoo answers (!) and when confronted with this fact, claimed that the person who was "doing her homework for her" must have cheated...sigh. Fail.
@Captain-First, you are completely WRONG about me giving a quiz. I never said I gave a quiz. Perhaps YOU need read more carefully. What was stated was I gave an ASSIGNMENT about the syllabus AND the online interface we use. Gee, is that a quiz?? NOPE. Also, you ASSUMED that I wanted an explicit definition or something to that effect on the ASSIGNMENT, which is also not true. Have you seen the assignment? NOPE. So before you go making accusations about what is asked or what I do, you need to stop making ASSUMPTIONS. Additionally, NO, I did not expell them or bring any formal charges for plagiarizing the syllabus or wherever they got the definition of anything. They EARNED a zero because I go over in GREAT DETAIL both ORALLY and in WRITTEN FORM what plagiarism and Academic Dishonesty are.
It would not kill them or make their fingers bleed from the extra effort to slap some quotation marks for directly quoted material and some citations by the information, which, GEE WHIZ CAPTAIN, would be academically sound and also show they LEARNED AND APPLIED SOMETHING TAUGHT IN CLASS AND WAS IN THE MATERIALS! *GASP* THE HORROR!!!
It is a low point assignment that serves as a wake-up call not only for academic honesty, but about reading things CAREFULLY and know WHY things are done in a certain way (Yes, again CAPTAIN, I do ask WHY so they are able to understand the reasoning behind things and critically think beyond "because she said so". So, AGAIN, you have not an effin' clue about me or the ASSIGNMENT (Please note, it's STILL not a QUIZ)! And, it has them have to THINK about the reasons we do things...OH NO!! IT WILL MAKE THEIR WIDDLE EYES BLEED FROM THE EFFORT!!!).
Even though they have the document in front of them to answer questions about the policies, they still make shit up, clearly indicating they didn't bother to read it or listen to me on the first day.
It is alo largely about making them actually GO to the evil computer interface and click around to find things that they will need for the course so I don't get a million friggin' questions about where things are, how they access their grades, the documents, print things out, etc...This FORCES them to fucking do it on their own because I MAKE them explore and click around for the answer, instead of just being the lazy fucks that they usually are and shooting me off an email so they don't have to bother their delicate sensibilities and actually TRY to figure it out on their own.
So, "Captain", before you make uninformed and incorrect statements, perhaps YOU should read more carefully. Oh, yeah, and give up your job as a claivoyant because clearly you suck at it.
For the record, I've asked students to please write up what they believe academic dishonesty is, in their own words, as a homework assignment. I've done this after we've had 'the talk' and gone over my definition of it as written on my syllabus. And they've taken the whole thing, word for word, off the internet!
And I FAILED their asses for it!!
No, not really. I only fail them if they plagiarize an essay, and not for homework. For that, they get a zero plus I make them eat these little cookies made out of shit.
Bitchy proffie, I like your idea of adding an irony question. Should I ever give that assignment again (a few things got missed due to excessive snow days), I am also going to ask them to define irony in their own words as a bonus question!
BP - that seems like an awfully long and, let's say "passionate" response to a question from someone who may disagree with you and misunderstood something you wrote. Maybe you weren't that clear. True, "bonus question" doesn't LITERALLY mean "it was a test", but I think it's reasonable that to some people "bonus question" might turn on a subconscious "it was a quiz" idea. I don't know that it warrants that kind of response though. Your original post struck me the same exact way, I'm really glad I was too busy at the time to ask a simple follow up question.
NOWHERE did I say QUIZ. I CLEARLY wrote ASSIGNMENT. No one has EVER put a bonus question on an ASSIGNMENT??
It was not a "simple question". It was a slam. He had not a clue what I was asking on the ASSIGNMENT, yet decided right the and there that it was "unreasonable". What does he know to make a judgment? Um that would be a big fat nothing. I will not "clillax" and yeah, nice little backhand that I am on some sort of medication. Attack much? I agreed with the OP and added that I give an assignment on such. “Captain” decides to slam me, so he got it back. I was just more "passionate" about telling him what was what. So, he can have a dissenting opinion with the actual facts. How's that for a novel situation?
Instead of jumping to conclusions, PERHAPS, he could have asked, “When they plagiarize the definition, what are the consequences” OR “What kinds of questions do you ask and do they require any interpretation of the syllabus or is it just general regurgitation of dates and policies?” THAT would be asking a simple question without any “attacking”. See how simple that was?? No, he decided to pass judgment on the ASSIGNMENT and my actions without so much as a second thought, because yeah, he knows all and you are supporting his ignorance with rationalization about some “subconscious” crap and it MUST be the other person’s fault. I stated ASSIGNMENT. I did not state anything beyond that I put that on an assignment about the syllabus and the online tool we use. CLEARLY it is MY fault he misunderstood. I weep for the future on several levels now.
What? Who said it's your "fault" we didn't understand you? I just said he misunderstood you and "maybe" you weren't clear. You had it all figured out in black and white and declared that "seems unreasonable to me" is a "slam" warranting multiple paragraphs replete with caplock. I don't see the difference between "Do you actually treat this as plagiarism?" and your proposed alternative "What are the consequences?"
I really don't see the need for the "I weep for the future" hysteria. No one said it was your fault. "Maybe you weren't clear" means just that. It is not saying it is your fault. It is suggesting an alternative to your view. Interpretting it as an assignment of fault is rather snowflaky and responding with the "I weep" comment is the biggest slam in this once interesting discussion.
It was a question based on a misunderstanding. You don't understand why he couldn't ask the question the way you would have asked it. I don't understand why you couldn't have said "It wasn't a quiz, it was just an assigment. Someone else gave a quiz." Even if all of the snowflakes disappeared in an instant, we would still have to answer questions and clear up misunderstandings without having a tantrum as a response. I weep too. For your students. They probably listen to The Wall on the way to your class.
I don't know whether to laugh or cry...
ReplyDeleteI thought we had some dunces at my uni (and we do!), but that's hilariously bad.
I am amazed at this also! I used to give an assignment on the syllabus and the online evil program from hell we used for the class. This assignment would include a question asking for the definition of plagiarism. Not only would they plagiarize the syllabus (If they bothered to even read it or they just made shit up for answers), they would plagiarize the definition of plagiarism. I wanted to put a bonus question of "What is irony?" LOL
ReplyDeleteI used to teach a tutor training course for the Writing Center. By the end of the course they were working in the WC, tutoring students, making handouts for us...
ReplyDeleteTheir final paper was to write an essay related to the course topics, and one student that I had already identified as "Shitheel" chose to write about plagiarism.
And then plagiarized the fuck out of it.
And then, when challenged on it by me, claimed that the graduate students in the WC he had taken the paper to for help had told him to do it that way. He knew the right way, but they told him wrong and he listened.
And then he challenged his grade. I won.
Early-in-the-semester plagiarism is definitely especially dispiriting. You can't tell yourself that they were overwhelmed with work an panicking, or certain from earlier grades that you hate them and panicking, or whatever. They're just being slimy, and who wants to spend the rest of the semester interacting with somebody slimy on a regular basis?
ReplyDelete@Bitchy: I don't think many of them recognize that definitions are intellectual work, will vary by source, etc., etc., and so need to be put in quotation marks. They think they're just facts. Still, yes, it's frustrating, and ironic.
[Just taking up the space anonymous will now use to claim that the blog is dying].
ReplyDeleteI keep telling students in my Intro Astronomy class that I'll change my mind about flying saucers when someone can bring me compelling evidence, such as technology left behind clearly not of Earthly origin, such as a ray gun that can actually vaporize someone. Such an item would be handy for plagiarists, especially ones THIS egregious. It'd do a lot of damage to the paint and wallpaper, though.
ReplyDelete@Cassandra-I get that argument all the time OR they say, "Well, it's from the text!" Like the textbook authors don't deserve credit for their work....
ReplyDelete@Froderick - I'm assuming that any sufficiently advanced technology could take out the plagiarist without leaving any traces on the paint and wallpaper.
ReplyDeleteBP- Expecting students to explicitly cite the syllabus on a quiz that specifically covers the syllabus seems unreasonable to me. Do you actually treat this like plagiarism (e.g. failing/expelling the student)?
ReplyDeleteStarting this semester, every piece of written work they turn in has a statement saying they understand the definition of plagiarism, that the work they're turning in is their own, and that they realize if they plagiarize once, they will fail the whole course.
ReplyDeleteNo plagiarists this semester so far.
@Merely: No, I WANT it to do LOTS of damage to the paint and wallpaper! I WANT it not to be magical, but clearly physical! I want there to be just enough time for the little shits to scream before turning into a cloud of smoke, so I can giggle! Now THAT would be an application of technology clearly of benefit to decent human beings everywhere!
ReplyDeletean outline of the offending student burned into the wall would be a great motivational tool.....
ReplyDeleteWell played, Frog and Toad. That made me smile before my first cup of coffee, which is almost impossible.
ReplyDeleteStella, what a great idea!!!! I'm stealing it, and I won't give you any credit!!!
ReplyDeleteWe've had a similar "no-plagiarism pledge" in place for a few years in our department and it has helped. The savvier kids avoid cheating (at least in obvious ways) and the truly stooopid still do it, but we can pull out their pledge with a flourish and fail them. I did have a student who plagiarized a homework answer from Yahoo answers (!) and when confronted with this fact, claimed that the person who was "doing her homework for her" must have cheated...sigh. Fail.
ReplyDelete@Captain-First, you are completely WRONG about me giving a quiz. I never said I gave a quiz. Perhaps YOU need read more carefully. What was stated was I gave an ASSIGNMENT about the syllabus AND the online interface we use. Gee, is that a quiz?? NOPE. Also, you ASSUMED that I wanted an explicit definition or something to that effect on the ASSIGNMENT, which is also not true. Have you seen the assignment? NOPE. So before you go making accusations about what is asked or what I do, you need to stop making ASSUMPTIONS. Additionally, NO, I did not expell them or bring any formal charges for plagiarizing the syllabus or wherever they got the definition of anything. They EARNED a zero because I go over in GREAT DETAIL both ORALLY and in WRITTEN FORM what plagiarism and Academic Dishonesty are.
ReplyDeleteIt would not kill them or make their fingers bleed from the extra effort to slap some quotation marks for directly quoted material and some citations by the information, which, GEE WHIZ CAPTAIN, would be academically sound and also show they LEARNED AND APPLIED SOMETHING TAUGHT IN CLASS AND WAS IN THE MATERIALS! *GASP* THE HORROR!!!
It is a low point assignment that serves as a wake-up call not only for academic honesty, but about reading things CAREFULLY and know WHY things are done in a certain way (Yes, again CAPTAIN, I do ask WHY so they are able to understand the reasoning behind things and critically think beyond "because she said so". So, AGAIN, you have not an effin' clue about me or the ASSIGNMENT (Please note, it's STILL not a QUIZ)! And, it has them have to THINK about the reasons we do things...OH NO!! IT WILL MAKE THEIR WIDDLE EYES BLEED FROM THE EFFORT!!!).
Even though they have the document in front of them to answer questions about the policies, they still make shit up, clearly indicating they didn't bother to read it or listen to me on the first day.
It is alo largely about making them actually GO to the evil computer interface and click around to find things that they will need for the course so I don't get a million friggin' questions about where things are, how they access their grades, the documents, print things out, etc...This FORCES them to fucking do it on their own because I MAKE them explore and click around for the answer, instead of just being the lazy fucks that they usually are and shooting me off an email so they don't have to bother their delicate sensibilities and actually TRY to figure it out on their own.
So, "Captain", before you make uninformed and incorrect statements, perhaps YOU should read more carefully. Oh, yeah, and give up your job as a claivoyant because clearly you suck at it.
wow
ReplyDeleteSee? This is what the snowflakes to do us!!!!
ReplyDeleteFor the record, I've asked students to please write up what they believe academic dishonesty is, in their own words, as a homework assignment. I've done this after we've had 'the talk' and gone over my definition of it as written on my syllabus. And they've taken the whole thing, word for word, off the internet!
And I FAILED their asses for it!!
No, not really. I only fail them if they plagiarize an essay, and not for homework. For that, they get a zero plus I make them eat these little cookies made out of shit.
Bitchy proffie, I like your idea of adding an irony question. Should I ever give that assignment again (a few things got missed due to excessive snow days), I am also going to ask them to define irony in their own words as a bonus question!
BP - that seems like an awfully long and, let's say "passionate" response to a question from someone who may disagree with you and misunderstood something you wrote. Maybe you weren't that clear. True, "bonus question" doesn't LITERALLY mean "it was a test", but I think it's reasonable that to some people "bonus question" might turn on a subconscious "it was a quiz" idea. I don't know that it warrants that kind of response though. Your original post struck me the same exact way, I'm really glad I was too busy at the time to ask a simple follow up question.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete@WC and Reg-
ReplyDeleteNOWHERE did I say QUIZ. I CLEARLY wrote ASSIGNMENT. No one has EVER put a bonus question on an ASSIGNMENT??
It was not a "simple question". It was a slam. He had not a clue what I was asking on the ASSIGNMENT, yet decided right the and there that it was "unreasonable". What does he know to make a judgment? Um that would be a big fat nothing. I will not "clillax" and yeah, nice little backhand that I am on some sort of medication. Attack much? I agreed with the OP and added that I give an assignment on such. “Captain” decides to slam me, so he got it back. I was just more "passionate" about telling him what was what. So, he can have a dissenting opinion with the actual facts. How's that for a novel situation?
Instead of jumping to conclusions, PERHAPS, he could have asked, “When they plagiarize the definition, what are the consequences” OR “What kinds of questions do you ask and do they require any interpretation of the syllabus or is it just general regurgitation of dates and policies?” THAT would be asking a simple question without any “attacking”. See how simple that was?? No, he decided to pass judgment on the ASSIGNMENT and my actions without so much as a second thought, because yeah, he knows all and you are supporting his ignorance with rationalization about some “subconscious” crap and it MUST be the other person’s fault. I stated ASSIGNMENT. I did not state anything beyond that I put that on an assignment about the syllabus and the online tool we use. CLEARLY it is MY fault he misunderstood. I weep for the future on several levels now.
Everybody have a couple of shots and come back tomorrow.
ReplyDeleteWhat? Who said it's your "fault" we didn't understand you? I just said he misunderstood you and "maybe" you weren't clear. You had it all figured out in black and white and declared that "seems unreasonable to me" is a "slam" warranting multiple paragraphs replete with caplock. I don't see the difference between "Do you actually treat this as plagiarism?" and your proposed alternative "What are the consequences?"
ReplyDeleteI really don't see the need for the "I weep for the future" hysteria. No one said it was your fault. "Maybe you weren't clear" means just that. It is not saying it is your fault. It is suggesting an alternative to your view. Interpretting it as an assignment of fault is rather snowflaky and responding with the "I weep" comment is the biggest slam in this once interesting discussion.
It was a question based on a misunderstanding. You don't understand why he couldn't ask the question the way you would have asked it. I don't understand why you couldn't have said "It wasn't a quiz, it was just an assigment. Someone else gave a quiz." Even if all of the snowflakes disappeared in an instant, we would still have to answer questions and clear up misunderstandings without having a tantrum as a response. I weep too. For your students. They probably listen to The Wall on the way to your class.
Your post wasn't satire, BitchyProffie? I was half expecting you to start quoting the USENET insult file.
ReplyDeleteHTTP://WWW.GUYMACON.COM/INSULT/