My wife and I and a couple of friends go to a hockey game
a couple of times a month. It's great fun. We drink beer, eat hot dogs, enjoy the game, and make a full Friday or Saturday night of it. (This is an NHL game in our city, not a college game on campus.)Last Monday, as my students were filing into class, one student named Ricky sort of "harumphed" as he walked past me to his desk. It was a dismissive sort of sound, and he's always been a pretty good guy in class. I said, "rough weekend?"
He sat down, looked at me stunned, and said, "You should know. You IGNORED me at the hockey game Saturday."
I quizzically looked at him and said - eloquently, "Huh?"
"I tried to talk to you THREE times: once when you were in line at the concession, once when I hollered your name during the game, and once when I saw you and you friends leaving."
His face was a contorted mess. The rest of the class was now listening in, and one of Ricky's friends said, "That's not cool, man."
"Well, Ricky," I said, "I must not have heard or seen you. Plus I was with my friends and we were probably just into the game."
"Not cool," another kid said. "Aren't we your friends
?" he said.Now, before I go on, let me say that I'm 50
. My students are in their late teens. I don't bring brownies to class. I don't encourage them to call me Hank."I'm not your friend," I said, and it felt unnecessary.
And the faces of nearly everyone in class just cracked. Mumbling and murmuring started. Their distaste at this revelation was palpable. For the rest of class they were quiet. If they answered questions, it was quickly.
On Wednesday it was more of the same, and on Friday, I'd gotten over it. But they hadn't. As they were leaving class, some smart ass already in the hallway said, "See you at the hockey game Hank," and most of the rest laughed. But not Ricky. He's still pissed.
- Hockey Hank
I've read that, in Germany several decades ago, professors didn't even take students' questions during the lecture.
ReplyDeleteSomehow, the academic world has gone from there to having the proffies be like your fun big brother.
Boundaries, for God's sake. Haven't these idiots heard of boundaries?
ReplyDeleteOh, I forgot. These kids have had adults ordering them to first-name them since they were in pre-school. These kids have been told that their parents are their friends (and often enough, by the parents themselves) their whole lives.
Whose fault is that, eh?
I'm "Dr. Introvert" to my students, "Mr. Introvert" to my Boy Scouts and my kids friends. I recommend it to everyone, in order to keep things like this from happening.
I fight with my students constantly over calling me by Mrs./Ms./Prof. Writer. I really don't care which, as long as they're using my last name. Part of the problem is that my name is unusual enough that either my first or last could be a last name, and part of the issue is that they just don't pay attention.
ReplyDeleteHank, my brother, you're not their friend? Mercy. Have you been paying attention? We HAVE to be their friends. They pay our bills. They have grown up in a world where respecting anyone older and wiser is just out the fucking door.
ReplyDeleteHey, maybe invite them all to the hockey game next week. Hang out. I will tell you that your student evals will skyrocket.
You won't be able to look yourself in the mirror anymore, but these are tough times.
Well, jeez, if someone tries to engage me in conversation I usually respond civilly, no matter who they are, unless they are obviously mentally disturbed.
ReplyDeleteI tell my students to avoid eye contact with me in public.
ReplyDelete@Frog and Toad
ReplyDeleteThe writer wrote, "Well, Ricky," I said, "I must not have heard or seen you. Plus I was with my friends and we were probably just into the game."
I'm guessing that Hank didn't ignore the student at all.
Frog and Toad, of course you acknowledge students when addressed - if you happen to hear or see them. it's clear from the post that Hank didn't hear or see the student. (The word "hollered", for example, means that the student wasn't standing directly in front of him). Perhaps you have never been to an NHL hockey game. There are very many people there and it is very noisy. It is very easy not to hear someone shouting at you from some distance away. It is clear that Hank intended no discourtesy, and simply didn't notice the student.
ReplyDeleteOne thing I don't get is the student's reaction, though. If he lives in a city big enough to have an NHL franchise he should be accustomed to behaviour in crowds, and have a grip on the notion that people won't necessarily spot you or be able to talk to you at, for example, a big hockey game. But he's behaving like a spoilt 2 year old whose Mommy didn't pick him up when he begged her to. Since when is it all about him? Since when does anyone get to have a temper tantrum - "face a contorted mess", and a week later he's still pissed - because someone you know casually didn't hear you calling them at the hockey game?
This kid has emotional issues. That is, he's a five-year-old in an overgrown body. I would frankly be a little creeped out by him.
I had a horrible moment at the grocery store two nights ago...my allergies have returned with a sudden and vengeful force, and I was stumbling through the grocery store, swollen-eyed and snotting, looking for some Zyrtec and some tea.
ReplyDelete"Hi Black!" shouted a young woman in jeggings and a puffer jacket.
In my head I thought "Snot...hurrrgggghhh...who the fuck is that....blaaarrrggghh."
Out loud, I said "Oh! Hi! How are you?"
I couldn't remember which class she was in, which semester I'd had her as a student, or why on earth she might be calling me by my first name. Fortunately, my question was answered with such a gust of language that I began to suspect she was high on either Red Bull or cocaine. Either way, I figured I wa safe from assertions of my mean-ness.
Merely Academic, earlier this year the Islanders went 14 consecutive games without a win. You can practically whisper in Tavares' ear "Get out while you can."
ReplyDeleteMy off-campus encounters with students mostly go like Black Dog's -- especially the momentary panic as I try to remember whether this is a current or former student, and whether I remember his/her name, and whether he/she shone or nosedived in my class, or fell somewhere in between (actually, I do remember those who really shine, and those who do very, very badly, usually by plagiarizing -- at least for a few semesters). I always reply, and make polite chitchat for as long as the student seems to want to (which usually isn't long). But the noisiest, most crowded venues in which I hang out are farmer's markets, so I can't offer a good case for comparison to Hank's situation.
ReplyDeleteMy least-welcome off-campus student encounter came when I went to get a cashier's check to cover the down payment on my (very small) condo. The check was the largest I had ever handled -- about half my annual salary -- and I could never have saved up that much on my own; I drew on an inheritance (and so availed myself of a c. 20% reduction in my monthly living costs via the mortgage interest deduction; no, our system isn't fair at all). I decided to go ahead with the transaction, and mentioned to the student what the check was for (partly because it was made out in a way which might have raised institutional red flags), but I would have preferred to end up with another teller that day, and very much hoped that she had been instructed in the principles of client privacy, and would actually stick to them (I've found that my students in HR and finance often aren't very careful about such things, at least from what I can tell from overheard gossip; the nurses, by contrast, are). Of course, during that era, half of my students seemed to be working as preliminary screeners for the mortgage industry anyway, and any one of them could probably have looked up my credit report if he/she so chose.
"Aren't we your friends?" he said.
ReplyDelete"Well, let me think. None of you has ever invited me to a party or a game or even dropped by my office just to shoot the breeze, so ... I guess not."
I'm not saying that you'd actually want them to do any of those things. But if it's not a two-way street, then it's probably not a friendship, and they shouldn't expect you to behave as if it were.
Make it up to them at your next kegger.
ReplyDeleteSorry, I am a hockey-game virgin. I just thought, hey, in a concession line, one can do the kind of pasted-on grin thing that BlackDog describes. But then, I spent quite a few years in my junior career having to hang out at the same bars as my students (because there were so few of them, and yes, I was with my own same-age friends). I became a master of non-committal chitchat.
ReplyDeleteAnd yes, the kid sounds like a big baby. As do the rest of them. Who needs 50-year-old friends when you're a twentysomething?
I tell my students that if they ever find me passed out in a crack house to please wipe the vomit from my face and call 911 if I'm not breathing. But it won't affect their final grade if they don't.
ReplyDeleteThis may not be appropriate, but I have to tell you, Hank, I got a big belly laugh on this one! I'm sure the cold shoulder in the classroom and being "not cool" isn't any fun, but good god, how ridiculous are they being? Whaaaaaaaah...(sniff).
ReplyDeleteSome of the best friends I have are former students, but the friendship truly developed after the class or classes were over. They treated me with appropriate respect during class and called me by my married name, NOT my first name. (Now they call me by my first name, of course!) But I never wanted to be best buds with my students while they were students.
I loath this casual approach of some instructors to allow students to call them by their first name. I'm pushing 50 and I do not want some 18 year old that doesn't know me calling me "june." But even when I was in my twenties, it was not alright for a student to call me by my first name. What would this accomplish? I'd really like to hear what someone who DOES want students to call them by their first name weigh in. Really, what does it accomplish..better evals? More in-depth learning? I want real results-oriented reasons why this is a supposed good thing.
"I loath this casual approach of some instructors to allow students to call them by their first name."
ReplyDeleteReally, Junebug? Loath? Fair enough. I loath things like racism and sexism.
My students call me Prof. Last Name, Ms. Last Name, or First Name, and I still get treated with appropriate respect in my classroom. It's insulting to imply that I don't mind being called by my first name because I want better evals.
I don't necessarily encourage my students to call me by my first name, but I don't fucking care if they do. Why? Because, Jesus Christ, sometimes you gotta lighten the fuck up.
I wouldn't say I encourage students to use my first name, I just don't care whether they call me Nadine, Dr. du Nord, or Prof. du Nord.
ReplyDeleteWhen I saw "du Nord" I really expected more weigh-in on hockey game etiquette. But maybe that's racist, sorry, Lu.
ReplyDeleteWhat my students call me varies by course. I went to a snooty college where we called our professors by their first names. But we were snooty and respectful about it and that's how we got into that school in the first place. So while I don't "encourage" it from anyone, I let it go with my seniors and my off-campus non-traditional (read: they're all teachers too) course. I lightly discourage it with my freshmen.
I think the theory at Snoots College was that if they treated us like adults, we'd respect our words enough to make them thoughtful and we'd wind up being better thinkers by the end. I think that was somewhat successfully acheived, too.
I don't know if you can respect a millenial enough to get them to stop being douchebags, though, so maybe I should officially call myself out-of-touch and retire at 37.
Honors students, independent study students, and small seminar students get to call me Frog, in the grand tradition of snooty liberal arts colleges, on the assumption that students in these small-scale settings are closer to colleagues. All others call me Professor andToad.
ReplyDelete@Liberal Lu
ReplyDeleteI have to tell you, it's people on this site like YOU who I hate.
You know that Junebug was doing what we all do, exaggerating, reveling in misery... Junebug doesn't actually HATE proffies who let themselves be called by first names.
But you have to show us how much cooler you are then anyone who might be bothered by the ridiculously mundane concerns shared in this comment thread.
Oh, me, too, Lu. I don't fucking care. I care less than you. You're uptight compared to me. I think you're wound too tight. Imagine getting all up in Junebug's business JUST to say, "I minimize your thoughts and I don't care enough anyway."
You I definitely hate. And I'm not exaggerating that one.
Thank you, Kimmie.
ReplyDeleteHuzzah, Kimmie!
ReplyDeleteWell said.
Thanks Kimmie.
ReplyDeleteI guess I'm the only one who thought that Kimmie's response sounded like a personal attack rather than a useful contribution to the site.
ReplyDelete@wombat: hockey etiquette is too important a subject to be dealt with in a comment to a blog post...
@ Kimmie:
ReplyDeleteYou hate me, yes? Fair enough. I hate things like budget cuts to my already hemorrhaging department and when the snowplow leaves a gigantic drift at the bottom of my driveway.
But you hate me. It's because I am gay, isn't it? (I don't *really* think you hate gay people. I am, what was the term you used? Oh, yes: exaggerating.)
Keep on hating me, Kimmie, for I am sure it is an exceptional use of your energy; meanwhile, I am gonna go teach 120 students how to use an apostrophe and then make dinner for me and my partner.
Peace!
Nadine du Nord - did you miss a "not"? As in, you're NOT the only person who thought, etc etc? Because everyone here is agreeing with you ...
ReplyDeleteNow I hate Lu, too. Seriously, don't you see how you've marginalized many of us by saying - more or less - "what you worry about, I do not. I simply let it all be. apostrophes, dinner, and partner." the implicaton just DRIPS, even off your closing "peace!"
ReplyDeleteOkay, Lu, you're better than the rest of us. I get it. Kimmie gets it.
The things that bother us don't bother you. You're cool as the other side of the pillow. Terrific. Have a nice dinner. I'm sure it's better than the swill the rest of us will eat.
Yeah, I feel badly for Lu, but she/he gets what she/he gets on this one - at least in my view.
ReplyDeleteSomeone pours out one's misery. Lu says, "Well, I would not be bothered by that. I'm having dinner and some lovin'."
The implication is we're boobs, boors and buffoons for letting whatever misery it is that troubles us - trouble us! What else are we supposed to do here?
If I felt that my urgent wailings were going to be met by someone who says, "That's not worth your or my energy," why would I keep coming back?
Am I reading it all wrong. I'm in the anti-Lu camp on this because her/his dismissal of another's misery sounds a lot like, "I'm too good to be bothered by that."
And that's a shitty attitude to bring to the misery capital.
Lu takes a hit on this one because she's not being condescending to one of the misery targets, but she's being condescending to one of the CM community. Does that make sense?
ReplyDeleteWe like to bitch about others, but try to be respectful - at least - of the community.
Condescension rarely looks good on anyone.
Peace. (See, that felt wrong to type that when I didn't mean it at all. Or maybe I did, because I'm so much better than Lu. See, that was mean, too.)
Get it?
Wait, you're teaching apostrophes to 120 students?
ReplyDeleteThat must be a day's worth of ninth grade shit going on there. I pity you, seriously.
I hope you have a good dinner after that.
Be gentle with poor little Lulu. It's hard to go through the world without any sense of irony, snark, ressentiment, bitchitude, joie de miserere. She probably wears sweatshirts with sparkly cats on them and has a "Mean People Suck" bumper sticker. She sleeps well at night, because she burns so many calories hating racism, a much more wholesome activity than hating the merely annoying.
ReplyDeleteHostile hippies. Oh, how well I know them.
lu is not ansi compliant and her markup doesn't validate
ReplyDelete