Student 1: "Sure, our classes are hard, but that's why we'll make at least 45K when we graduate."Either the economy is getting better, or they're getting more delusional (perhaps because they can't bear to contemplate the mathematical relationship between their total loans and their likely starting salaries).
Student 2: "45K!?! I expect to make at least twice that!"
And, of course, I think it would be unwise to tell them that, after a Ph.D. and 20+ years in the classroom, I still make somewhat south of 45K. At least, thanks to my father and the folks who thought there would be shortage of humanities proffies in the '90s, I don't have loans (well, not college/grad school ones). And I know there are plenty of Ph.D.s who make much less than I.
I'm going with delusional. Have they not seen the #OWS protest signs: "Two degrees, two part-time jobs, no healthcare"??
ReplyDeleteI had this awful student who keeps skipping my class approach me a few weeks ago as I was packing up. I assumed he was going to apologize and ask for make up opportunities (uh, no).
ReplyDeleteBut instead, he bragged about how he didn't fail the mid term (and he almost did) and then explained that he didn't need this class because he had an interview for a job that pays $72k with benefits as an undergrad. He also mentioned his high IQ.
Oh, poor dear. An "interview" is not a "secured job" and is not a valid reason to slack off in your classes.
Sure enough, he didn't secure said job and now he is asking me for makeup work. (uh, no.)
If these students were science majors, it's entirely possible that they could get $45K as a lab tech/assistant. $90K seems kind of high for a BS degree right out of college.
ReplyDelete@Ben: the 45K didn't seem so implausible to me, either. I've had a number of students who were already, or were close to being certified as, pharmacy technicians, and 45K isn't unrealistic for that job (and it could probably be more with overtime). And if it had been an aspiring engineer or computer scientist who mentioned the 90K, I would have thought hir only a bit over-optimistic. But the person who expects 90K seems to be aiming toward field biology/ecology -- a fascinating field, and one I could probably happily work in myself, but not, unless I'm missing something, especially lucrative. I know some members of my county's natural resource conservation team, some of them graduates of my institution, and I don't think they're making anything approaching 90K.
ReplyDeletePeople's expectations in the area of economics and finance are often far removed from reality. I'm not sure what causes this; it could just be a particular type of rosy optimism, or it could be the result of being constantly bombarded by advertisements and TV programs that portray everyone as wealthy and happy.
ReplyDeleteAnother possibility is that the type of economics taught to kids in schools tends to emphasize opportunities for wealth and downplay economic inequality. This article from 2002, about teaching economics in schools, gives some idea of the sort of unrealistic expectations that your students might have:
A recent poll by Junior Achievement found that nearly one quarter of teens believe they will have $1 million in assets by age 40, while 15% think they will earn more than $1 million a year. Aside from being unlikely—the actual proportion of current million-dollar earners is about one in a thousand—the curriculum downplays the impact of inheritance and the earnings of corporate executives, both important starting points for understanding the U.S. economy.
RYS did a nice anecdotal salary series at some point.
ReplyDeleteSome.
Some others.
As a Gen-Xer, it never for an instant occurred to me that I'd earn $1 million over a lifetime, let alone in a year.
ReplyDeleteF&T:
ReplyDeleteYou never thought that you might work 30 years or so and make about $30k a year during that time? What did you imagine you would do during your lifetime?
My first year in academics ('05/'06 including summer session) I made under $20k.
ReplyDeleteWombat,
ReplyDeleteYes, but over the course of a full time career, doesn't it seem within the realm of possibility that one MIGHT make an average of 30k over 30 years?
I'm not great shakes of any kind, but here's where I am right now (I had to estimate a bit on some of the oldest numbers):
Teaching career:
Year 1 (CC part-timer): $9,000
Year 2 (CC part-timer): $11,000
Year 3 (t-t#1): $31,000
Year 4 (t-t#1): $31,000
Year 5 (t-t#1: $35,000
Year 6 (t-t#2: $51,000
Year 7 (t-t#2: $52,000
Year 8 (t-t#2: $55,000
Year 9 (t-t#2: $55,000
Year 10 (tenured: $61,000
Year 11 (tenured: $61,000
Year 12 (tenured: $61,000
Year 13 (tenured: $61,000
That's $574,000 in 13 years. I started my first "real" adult teaching job at the age of 30. I'm 43 now. I'd bet I can earn another $400,000 in my lifetime. And my school is on the lower end of salaries in my discipline.
@Monkey:
ReplyDelete> Sure enough, he didn't secure said job and
> now he is asking me for makeup work.
> (uh, no.)
When an obnoxious student does something like this to me, my smile is a fatuous thing, dreadful to behold. I know it's not nice, and that I should conceal my Schadenfreude, but I'm not very good at it. ;-)
Will - my comment was a general comment to the original submission, which included the statement "We will make xxx when we graduate.", not a response to your comment. It was my experience. When I graduated, I made far less. When you graduated, you did too.
ReplyDeleteSorry, Wombat, I guess I intended to engage F&T who said that as a Gen Xer it never occurred to her that she'd earn a million dollars in a lifetime, and I can't get my head around that idea at all, given typical salaries, career lengths, and lifespans.
ReplyDeleteWhen I came out of college, there was a recession. In grad school I earned $15K/year for 4 years. That's $60K. My first job paid $12K/year after taxes. A 30-year career like that would net me $360,000 (I never got a raise in the 3 years I was there). So at the time, no, it never occurred to me that I'd earn a million over a lifetime. At the rate I was going I was going to starve to death, foreshortening my life anyway.
ReplyDelete