I got roped in to a weekend seminar at my college. We met for 48 hours off site, 20 of us from a variety of departments. While I vaguely knew some of the other proffies there, I'd never spent much time with any of them.In one breakout group, I was set aside with someone from History and English. We did our project, and then wandered out on to a porch for a drink and a smoke. While we were out there, both of the other proffies talked about their departmental colleagues, the things they did together outside of school, their families, their spouses, going out to dinner, going to the city for a game, etc.
When there was a lull in the conversation, I said, "I can't remember a single time I did anything outside campus with any of my colleagues."
They were stunned.
The rest of that day it ate at me. I like my colleagues well enough, but we all seem eager to get away from each other at the end of a day. But these other two proffies had their colleagues as actual friends. And there was a richness to that that suddenly made me feel awfully empty. What was I missing?
Q: Are you and your colleagues friends? I'm not just saying good relations on campus. Do you do things away from the academic world of your college? Do you families know each other? Spouses, kids, intermingling, you know, just like the real world? What does it add to your working relationship?
I don't live in the college town, so that limits contacts outside work. My friendships are largely with people I meet outside work, though I have a cordial relationship with my colleagues.
ReplyDeleteI'm still a TA, so I don't know if it counts, but I do things with my fellow TAs pretty often. Relationships with full professors are a little weird because I'm still technically a student yet I teach classes and go to the faculty meetings, so we're in this weird liminal space where we COULD be friends . . . after I graduate.
ReplyDeleteMy department colleagues are all very close, well beyond just the professional interactions. Everybody is so pleased with this situation that we actually consider this a lot during hiring. It's hard to pinpoint the exact traits that we are looking for since friendships cannot be planned based on a simple interview. Their reaction to the idea of swapping spouses is usually a good indication of their "fit" in our department.
ReplyDeleteDepends on the size and location of the campus. I was a PhD student in a small university-centred city, everyone lived within walking distance of the campus (except for those who chose the lakeside house in the forest an hour's drive away), and it was clear many of the profs socialized (and their kids played together) outside of work simply because they lived in the same neighbourhood, and went to the same restaurants, bookstores, community centres, kids' sports leagues, pubs etc. Where I work now is a commuter school in a large city with million+ population, surrounded by a lot of commercial real estate, and the minimum commute I've heard of for a colleague is a 20 min drive (the surrounding residential real estate for quite a distance is not desirable); many spend an hour on public transit; this will clearly impact on outside social activities.
ReplyDeleteSure department members hang out and get to know each other outside of work. And after they are finished being best friends the back stabbing begins. It's at the point that I won't attend department events as I'm not sure I could control the desire to sucker punch someone.
ReplyDeleteOh, damn. They rearranged the left sidebar. Now I'm not going to get anything done today.
ReplyDeleteAnd a serif font for the masthead. Dear God, help me through this.
DeleteMy cries of woe have been answered. Great, now I have to go to church.
DeleteI don't have a left sidebar, only a right sidebar. What the hell?!? Time to write some RGM about this!!
DeleteOh look, you killed him!
DeleteTry teaching online. I have been doing this for over five years and have met one colleague. One. At a conference.
ReplyDeleteMy department is just like high school (or sometimes junior high school). The boundaries are drawn from Day One. When new hires arrive, there is jockeying to test them and see which group they fit into. Most people in those groups do things together away from work. There's more than enough backbiting and ugly assumptions about someone not in one's clique to go around.
ReplyDeleteWhen I first started, one of the revered female silverbacks tried to get her tribe to accept me. Unfortunately, as a middle-class woman from another part of the country who was 30+ years younger than the members, I quickly discovered I had little in common with women whose husbands were doctors, lawyers, judges, or successful businessmen. I had no children, grandchildren, charity galas, plastic surgery, or expensive vacations to talk about. I could barely afford to go out to lunch with them, let alone socialize outside work. Plus as I was from Somewhere Else, any new ideas I had about how to do anything were regarded as suspicious and being presented for my own personal gain rather than something that might make things better for students or the department.
I learned pretty quickly that it was best to have just a small group of colleagues who were also true friends outside the office. After I'd been here awhile, I found more friends through my religious affiliation, volunteer work, and hobbies. It also helped to make some friends outside the department, which gave me a much better perspective about what was going on and how others see us.
My two best friends (truly) anywhere, ever, both are from my last department at my last job. In fact, most of the folks who worked in and around that Writing Center got along great and went out a lot outside of work because we literally enjoyed spending time together that much.
ReplyDeleteHere there is a GIANT age gap that makes it pretty difficult for me to have those kinds of relationships with faculty in my department. They don't go out at night, they don't stay up late, and I don't have a family/kids yet. But we do bond over our dogs....
As a child of (now retired) faculty members, I find I'm following in my parents' footsteps: I do have friends amongst my departmental colleagues, but only one or two that I would make plans to see outside of work-related activities. I have more friends in other departments, which I find ideal because it limits the time devoted to shop-talk. When we do grouse about work, it's at the institutional level -- rather than the course level. I've been like this since my early days in grad school -- and was once called out for fraternizing (sorotizing?) outside of "the department."
ReplyDeleteThat aside, I have noticed a decline in faculty socializing since my parents' days -- when it was the norm to host a rather raucous party (not "Ice Storm" raucous, but liquor and dancing involved). My father gave up on these parties when his younger colleagues insisted that they would only attend a gathering at which their children were welcome (we loved party nights -- it meant we were getting McDonald's for supper!).
I have nothing in common with those people....
ReplyDeleteI am friendly with everyone, except one paranoid fool (as in he believes his office is being bugged by some defunct government agency & has installed a special lock on his door to monitor whether his office has been disturbed... more about him in a longer post)in the department. I only socialize with one of my colleagues outside of work, even though we all get along and enjoy each others' company. There are others, however, with children, who socialize and together more than I do because it's a small community and their kids are friends.
ReplyDeleteWe do consider whether a person would fit into the dynamics of our department when we hire new people. So far, we've been lucky. The only odd ball out is the silverback who has been here and is probably, we I type this, fingerprinting his office door.
I never realized you worked in the same department as Strelly.
DeleteScrew you.
DeleteScrew you...sir?
DeleteThanks for ignoring my typos... and Strelly, the KGB really IS coming to get you.
DeleteFunny, I work FOR the KGB.
DeleteMy campus socializes informally (and interdepartmentally) on the first Friday of the month (after we get paid). Or at least we used to. I'm hoping to revive the practice.
ReplyDeleteAs for friends in my department: not so much. There are several members who are my age, who have children the same age as mine, and they do a lot of socializing. I'm not included. It stings a bit.
It stopped stinging for me when I realized that if I were part of the 'those with kiddies who love each other' group, I'd have to also host and babysit said kiddies regularly like they all seem to do. And since I'm not going into the realm of "is it OK to serve peanut butter and crackers," my SI's kid just navigates his own social circles.
DeleteI don't have children, which in the minds of my fellow faculty means I can't possibly have anything in common with them. It's interesting, because we're all about unpacking the patriarchy or socking it to the man or whatever cute phrase we're using this week is...but having babies is Absolutely Mandatory to Be A Cool Kid. Preferably having babies with a Peanut Allergy. Or Vegetarians. Or Paleo. Yikes.
DeleteWe shoot some hoops and drink beer afterwards, but that's about the extent of my social interactions with other faculty members.
ReplyDeleteMy department does not socialize at all. We sit together at the division meetings and we have our Christmas lunch once a year, but that is the extent of our "social" interaction. Everyone gets along very well academically and they are great colleagues. So, I have no problems with this arrangement.
ReplyDeleteOnly the ones with cute dogs!
ReplyDeleteMy department isn't particularly sociable; I have a couple of colleagues I meet very occasionally for coffee. There's an age gap problem for one thing; but mostly we just make our friends elsewhere. I notice that other department seem to be more sociable. Mine works fine though; we don't have expectations of social behaviour.
ReplyDeleteI actually am friends with many of my department colleagues and have friends in other departments. We don't get paid much - it's a SLAC - and if it weren't for the great colleagues, half the faculty would quit or look for work elsewhere.
ReplyDeleteMy department has been round and round with this one. During my first four years here, we had an incompetent hysterical dingbat of a department chair who kept insisting we were "like family," often in order to justify faculty meetings that ran interminably. We socialized only occasionally. I disliked going even to Friday-evening dinners with colloquium speakers and job interviewees, because we also had a senior prof who is a dreadful old bully. He has a sinister, creepy demeanor, and seems to think that the way to help junior faculty was to dump as much stress on them as possible. That and a large, pot-luck party for the entire department (students included) at an emeritus faculty member’s home about once per semester was about the extent to which we socialized.
ReplyDeleteWorking conditions and the quality of the education we can provide improved a lot since we got a competent department chair, and then another one. The social scene hasn’t changed much, though, aside from it being a lot more pleasant.
Some of your posts are reminding me of the "good old days" stories I get from the silverbacks who lament how fragmented we are as a department now compared to when they were hired. That was a heyday time when people could just about walk in off the street with a master's degree and walk out with a TT position, and multiple hires were made every year. They were all close in age and status for the most part, so they had more in common.
ReplyDeleteWhen I was first hired, we had at least 3 parties a year at different colleagues' homes, and people pretty much felt obligated to go or have a damned good explanation as to why they didn't so they wouldn't be talked about on Monday. Those have dwindled to just a single party every so often, and usually the only people who come are the chair, office staff, and whoever is in the clique of the host. We also had mandatory coffee duty where all faculty were signed up to host a department coffee, doing all setup, refreshments, and takedown, every couple of weeks. Many of us resented it as it was scheduled during prime time teaching for those with morning schedules and began far too early for those with later schedules. Then there were the mandatory birthday celebrations, with all those whose birthdays were missed during summer break or winter break lumped together at the beginning of the term. Participation dwindled to the point where we finally voted to stop forcing socialization with these events.
Hm. I think my department socializes, but I live elsewhere, so I don't. I haven't noticed any negative effects on my career, and I don't get embroiled in the petty dramas.
ReplyDelete