I have 5 classes; 4 are full of energetic lively students, enaged in discussion and willing and able to answer questions. They also possess a sense of humor.
The fifth class is where I land in the mud.
They don't laugh. They don't blink. They don't respond. They don't even breathe, I fear.
I teach 2 sections of this class. Same material. Same teacher.
In the mud class, I ask a question. A simple question about material we just discussed or read or viewied. I wait. They stare at me. I stare back. They stare at me. I stare back. Finally, some small barely audible voice croacks out an answer.
I show a funny film clip.
In non-mud class, they laugh.
In the mud class? Silence. Blank faces.
Today, I didn't realise I hadn't flipped the projector to the computer. So, when I started talking about what they should have been viewing, no one said anything. I chatted away and then realised they were looking at a blank screen.
Sometimes I think I could strip naked and they wouldn't blink.
By the end of the class, I am exhausted.
Q: What should I do? Even their group work is a muddy field. They don't even engage with each other when put in small groups.
- submitted by Dr. Tivo
Are you me? I have this same thing this semester. I even posted about this back in January: http://collegemisery.blogspot.com/2012/01/this-doesnt-augur-well.html
ReplyDeleteAs you might have guessed, they're the face-plant group. The section right after theirs: lots of energy, and they laugh at the jokes.
I finally figured out this morning why I dread Tuesday and Thursday mornings, and you have given a name to my pain. Thank you.
Sorry I didn't answer your thirsty.
DeleteI do this: exactly the same thing in both classes, and I stopped worrying about it.
Out of curiosity, what are the differences in grades for the sections? Maybe they're getting what you're laying down--they're just not animated. I discovered this morning (to my shock) that the early class has a C average, and the second class has a C- average (with 5 failing out of 23 registered).
I have a class like this. I teach three sections of the same class, 15 students, and class time is driven entirely by student participation (and about 25% of their final grade). And I've never seen a class more willing to stare sullenly into space as my first hour.
ReplyDeleteSo, for their first block participation grades, I gave 13 F grades and 2 A grades. The next day, they were all sad. And asked why I had given them all terrible grades. I responded that in my book they were either meeting my expectations for participation (and being rewarded for good behavior with an "A") or they were not (i.e., failing). I told them that simply showing up and staying awake was not actually a virtue, and that as soon as I hated coming to class a little less, their participation grades would likely rise. I told them about my theory of relativity--that the 55-minute period can seem to expand or contract depending on the depth and quality of discussion. On good discussion/participation days, the period will fly by. On bad days, the clock crawls. I actually told them that this section was the slowest and most painful 55 minutes of my day, that I dreaded coming to class, that I had little motivation to teach them because it was like talking to a wall of bricks. I told them that I didn't actually need them to tell me the answers to the questions I was asking--that I, in fact, already knew the answers, so their participation really was for their benefit, not mine. but it was no skin off my back if they didn't learn anything.
They were sort of stunned by this honest revelation. And, behold - they've been better for the past few weeks.
I love your theory of relativity--maybe I'll lay it on them when they come back from spring break. Because I got bovine indifference again today, and had to drag them through the material. Ugh.
DeleteLove the theory of relativity, too!!!
DeleteI have had success with awarding participation points and explaining that I am not asking for feedback because I need help with the answers, but this has worked with some groups, and with others, no go; even as I'm explaining this, their robot-like mannerisms do not change...
I've also tried to help the students feel less uncomfortable with each other and more open (on the theory that they're not emoting because they're scared of doing so in front of each other, or in front of me). Sometimes this works, and sometimes not.
Sometimes, as in last quarter, I just had what my friend likes to call "a bump on a log" class. THey sit there like a bump on a log and refuse to roll over for anyone. And I do what I can and leave the rest to them. I have fun with the group that is enjoying the material and my way of teaching, and just hope I get a glimmer of a smile from someone in the other group.
In my 'nonscientific' anecdotal experience, the group that is highly participative isn't always earning better grades, but they sure make me like them more!
I'd drop a class if it had a 25% participation component. Because it's clearly a joke class if a sizable portion of the final grade is based on how much noise you make.
Delete...AND another country heard from...
DeleteDrop away Stalker. I'll laugh as you leave.
DeleteStalker: Did I not mention our participation component? See you at drop/add.
DeleteThe RGM
PS: Seriously, participation grades are used usefully by many proffies.
And yet, he keeps making noise.
DeleteAlan for the win.
Delete"PS: Seriously, participation grades are used usefully by many proffies."
DeleteAnd that's fine...I've had loads of classes with participation components. But never at the ridiculous level of 25% of the final grade. The most I remember having off the top of my head was 10%.
When I teach multiple sections of our large, non-majors course (Omnology for General Education), I find that different sections can have very different vibes, ranging from feeling like a successful party to complete sludge.
ReplyDeleteHypothesis 1: The motivated students tend to register early and get certain desirable sections first, meaning that they're overrepresented in some and underrepresented in others. Does your mud class meet at a time most students wouldn't want, such as 8:00 AM? Does it meet at the same time as some really awesome class that the motivated students all would want to take?
Hypothesis 2: It can sometimes take only a few interested and motivated students to raise the interest and activity level of everyone present -- and it can also sometimes take only a few really sludgy types to suck the life out of everyone. I don't know how it happens, but I feel as if many of my students could go either way, and it only takes two or three students to set the tone for everyone.
I dunno. Anyway, good luck, and hang in there.
I'm tempted to extend the mud metaphor a bit further, and suggest that you deal with the class as I'm told one should deal with quicksand: don't struggle or otherwise exhaust yourself, try to float on top, and wait for rescue (or, in this case, the end of the semester). This is probably a variation on BurntChrome's advice above.
ReplyDeleteYes, there are classes like this (and, as dr beowulf point out, time slots and even rooms that, at least for a time, tend to generate/attract classes like this). And they don't necessarily learn less. The whole phenomenon is probably a bit easier on introverts like me, who don't care quite so much about the class vibe, or culture, or whatever you want to call it, but even I find the bump-on-a-log classes exhausting.
I agree with dr-beawulf on this one. If there are two sections of the same class, even, at different times, you can bet your British tweed the eager students go for the later time. Among my peers I've noticed this: 8 AM or earlier = horror. 9 AM = *groan* FINE. 11 AM = brunch! Noon classes = lunchtime! Anything later than 2 PM = no way. Night classes = naptime!
ReplyDeleteWhen I was a student, I used to prefer night classes such as from about 6 PM to 10:30 PM. They were not called night classes: they were credit courses and students were free to take courses at whatever time they were available. Some were not available that late or on a day when my night schedule was not already full, but they were generally in the afternoon, not in the morning, at least not when I was able to choose the section I preferred. This way, my precious daytime hours were available for studying, meeting professors during office hours (I was not going frequently), my job, etc. I was not taking naps in class. If anything, I was able to sleep later in the morning (my job started late) and still be a good student.
DeleteI had a term with three sections of the same class back to back to back. The middle one acted like grade 9 with a substitute teacher. Just finish the term and drink till you forget them.
ReplyDeleteThis is what drove me to CM last year. Quelle silver lining...
ReplyDelete(And I have nothing to offer other than sympathy, and advice on the best Malbecs you can buy for under $15. Santé!)
Puggi -- You uni offers classes BEFORE 8 am??? Does anyone sign up?
ReplyDeleteThe very rare, occasional 7:30. Usually very upper class, senior seminar/research group, usually 1-5 students + instructor. Very rare, though.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteWe have had successful 7:00 a.m. classes on MWF for years and used to even offer the occasional 6:30 a.m. TR class. As I'm at a CC, these classes had to have reasonably high numbers, at least 15 students, to make. Colleagues who taught them told me the students are extremely motivated. Most of them immediately went on to a job that started shortly afterward. They would then come back to campus in the evenings if they needed library or advising services.
DeleteI was always intrigued by the thought of a 7 AM class. It might be miserable at first, but it would have forced me to get up and out and doing things, and I would appreciate the feeling of having more hours in the day (I don't need a lot of sleep, but if I don't have to wake up I don't).
DeleteRight after undergrad I worked a job that went from dawn 'til dusk. In the fall, when the sun was on its way down by 4 PM, I would work for hours and afterwards still think "Woo let's go for a run guys, the day has JUST BEGUN." It was a very productive and satisfying time.
To address the actual thirsty:
ReplyDeleteIs your mud class composed of noticeably different "types" of students compared to your other classes? For example, do many of them seem older? Younger? Do you know if there are more nonmajors compared to the other classes (assuming this is not a majors-only sort of class)?
These students could very likely just be duds, but if this class has a different "type" of student, that might explain the difference in participation, responses to humor, etc.
Alternately, is there one student in the class who is particularly sullen? I've heard of one or a few students ruining a class if their attitudes are poor enough.
The original poster (Dr. Tivo) sends this in:
ReplyDeleteIt made me feel tons better to know others also experience Epic Fail!
For the record, these students are traditional age, noon class ( most popular time), and their grades are no better or worse than the engaged class.
And yes, there is a student who is probably the bad chemical factor. I had considered that. There are a few serious and good students, but for some reason, they just sit there. The real factor is that none of them do their homework, and so they have nothing to contribute.
I feel like a television. Just call me, Dr. Tivo.
I have the same problem, but I have the same large group day in and day out. I now just tell them that at least _I_ thought it was funny and move on. Sometimes it really is them and not you.
ReplyDelete