Saturday, March 24, 2012

Ianthe on International Students.

I've been catching up with CM, and I was struck by the posts, a while back, about dealing with international students.

Now what?
I feel your pain, although I have to say that I am not in an English department or a writing center. I teach string macrame, but, for a number of historical reasons, including long employment as a science writer and editor, I frequently find myself teaching "writing intensive" courses. And these courses frequently have high enrollments of non-native speakers of English, since my institution, like many others, regards these "full-freight paying" students as, essentially, cash cows. Indelicately put, perhaps, but not untrue. Our particular population includes a high percentage of "parachute children" sent by their parents to stay with host families and attend American high schools at the age of fourteen, fifteen, or sixteen. It strikes me that these kids have a series of unique problems. For one thing, their cognitive development is hindered by having high school subjects taught in a language in which they are, at best, at an intermediate level. For another, they often get to see their families for less than a month per year. That's got to be tough on a teenager.

The institution does not want to increase the amount of support, in the form of ESL classes/writing clinics/tutoring services offered to these students, because this kind of teaching is expensive, no matter who does it. Every cent the institution spends on support decreases the profitability of these students. The institution has already cut back on services to "native" or in-state students. I can understand the administration's reluctance to spend more on this new population. They are in a bad place, since state support has plummeted every year I've been here.

No one is every going to ask for my opinion on what to do about this, so I am offering it to CM, gratis. I actually have several ideas.

1. We admit these international students by using different rules than we use for our own in-state students. Logically, then, couldn't we also graduate them using different rules? Say, for example, we institute a new degree, a Bachelor of Technology degree, for example. No general education courses, no writing courses. Just STEM courses, one after another. This would, I think prove popular with the students themselves, since they often do well in such courses.

2. If the above smacks too much of separate and discriminatory paths, maybe we could just open the Bachelor of Technology to ALL our students. I think there would be a substantial demand for such a program among our "native" students as well.

3. Both of the above are unlikely, I know. So here's a third option, the one I think has a chance of working. It covers everyone, and it saves the institution some serious money.

We give up.

We simply admit that we cannot teach writing anymore. It's too expensive, and we do it rather badly, even with our students who are native speakers of English. Even these native students write very poorly (and this is an institution that is "very selective") and have enormous trouble reading anything that is more than a page or two in length. Their vocabulary is quite limited; today I had a student ask me what "polemical" meant. (It was in a reading; evidently it never occurred to her to look it up.) Indeed, I cannot figure out how to teach people who "never read" how to write, and, from what I can tell, the English department hasn't been able to solve this problem, either.

From what I can tell, writing just is not a skill anyone values now. I look at blogs and see people actually making money on them with posts that are simply awful. I am not talking merely about the frequent misspellings and grammatical problems. Those happen to the best of us, although one would hope not with the consistency these blogs evince. However, there are plenty of blogs written by people who cannot even tell a story consecutively and understandably, let alone support an argument or argue from evidence. They have many followers and readers and (admiring!) commentators.

We could, of course, maintain some writing courses, for those students who want them. Indeed, we could even offer a "writing certificate" or a "writing endorsement" on their diplomas, after they take a series of writing courses. Departments might even require such a sequence as part of their graduation requirements, if they actually value writing as much as they say they do.

For anyone who says that our "stakeholders" and the corporations who employ our students would object strenuously to our giving up on writing instruction for all, all I can say is that in the nearly three decades that I have been teaching, I have never seen a corporation offer a student an extra nickel in salary because the student is a good writer. Corporations, we are sometimes told, vote with their money. I would say that they have decisively voted that writing is not a skill worth paying for.

Is it strange that our students do not value it either?

30 comments:

  1. There's a fourth choice: admit all students under the same standard, graduate them all under the same standard, and let the chips fall where they may. If the institution will not provide support, which will lead to low graduation rates for the foreign students, eventually the foreign students will stop attending. The university will have to choose between providing more support for the cash cows and losing them entirely.

    And you're very very wrong about the importance of writing. You couldn't be more wrong. Why are you conflating blogs with the hiring process? They're not the same thing at all. It's true that corporations indeed may not pay a higher salary to good writers, but if you can't demonstrate that you can write, you won't get hired to begin with.

    I have a friend who used to work at Boeing. Whenever he had a job to fill, the first cut was always the people who couldn't write. The very first cut. He'd look at their letter of application, and their resume, and if there were any grammatical mistakes, or the applicant couldn't string two sentences together, he'd throw their application in the circular file. He said people would be shocked how many applications he threw away, just because the applicants couldn't write, or didn't write well. He said at least 75% of the applications got tossed immediately. No, you might not get more money if you can write. But if you can't, you won't get the job to begin with.

    If you can't think well, you can't write well. Period. Now, many that can't write well CAN think well, but writing well often serves as the proof one can think well.

    Forever and ever, amen.

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    1. Stella, I totally agree with you about the importance of writing - no argument. But I remember posting a while back about a piece by Boeing execs on their in-house training pedagogy. It was gobbledygook of the first magnitude (the Boeing piece, I mean - my blog post was of course a model of clarity if I do say so myself). It made me really question the alleged corporate commitment to good writing.

      I'd be really curious if you forwarded that bit to your friend from Boeing and see let us know what he thinks.

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    2. The key there is he USED to work at Boeing! :^)

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  2. I totally agree with Stella. If you can't write well, you come across as stupid -- this is not fair, but it is what it is. My brother is in the private sector, in finance, and he too says they toss any application that shows poor writing skills. The elite write well because they have been trained to, and *everyone* should have access to that training. The gulf between the haves and have-nots is now huge when it comes to writing skills, and that's just plain wrong.

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  3. Stella, your post said what I was thinking, and probably said it better.

    However, I disagree with your point that the university has only two choices. I'm afraid that they will just put pressure on the faculty to pass the substandard writers.

    It always seems to come down to money. The company I used to work for came up with a WIN (Whatever Is Necessary) program. "Do whatever is necessary to make the customer happy" was the mantra. We sold and serviced copiers and I suggested we use some old rental or lease returns as a pool for loaners, because when a customer's machine was down and needed a part the first question asked of the technician was, "Can we get a loaner?" No, we couldn't do that, it would be too expensive I was told. I realized that Customer Goodwill was not a line on a financial statement and if it couldn't be quantified it wasn't important.

    It's the same with college. They need to make enough money to break even. If the Admissions Department rejects applications that show no writing proficiency, enrollment and the revenue stream from tuition falls.

    The problem that professors have to face with the students goes back about 18 years in each student's case. These students can't write in college because they couldn't write in high school, because they didn't learn the fundamentals in elementary school, because their parents didn't insist on them learning in the first place.

    Helicopter parents have always existed, but they've changed. My aunt had a terrible time in school, which may have been due to dyslexia. My father remembered her working at the table and seeing her just drift off, at which point my grandmother would bring her back to the task at hand. She hovered over my aunt those nights and made sure she did her homework. I've joked that my father was such a good student because he saw what his older sister was going through and decided to spare himself all that drama and apply himself.

    Now parents hover over the situation and try to smooth the way for the child, rather than press the child to make his/her own path. After nearly two decades of this, it's the proffies who are left to deal with the mess.

    Maybe Israel has it right, compulsory military service for both genders. Three months boot camp and a couple of years' service might recondition their thinking so they might be accountable and accept responsibility.

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    1. "Three months boot camp and a couple of years' service might recondition their thinking"

      Except for the bit about shooting and being shot at.

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  4. There already is a place for people who want to earn degrees but don't want to learn how to write. It's called proprietary school. While the general public often confuses the technical certificates and degrees community colleges, state-funded tech colleges, and academically accredited private tech colleges give with those from the proprietary schools, most employers do not. They know that we insist on at least a basic level of literacy and numeracy in order to earn a credential. It may not be college level for some of the entry-level certificates, but at least it's in the high school range. That's how those places stay in business. People pay through the nose to get their degrees and either have no core courses to take or take courses with skill levels so low that no accredited college would ever take them in transfer. Some of our greatest churn comes from students who start with us, struggle with basic skills, and then learn they can go to Careers R Us down the street and get a nursing credential or become a lab tech. It will cost them five times as much, and their likelihood of getting a job is much less, but it's easier.

    We simply cannot give up on writing, or reading for that matter. Literacy is essential for our world to function. If an international student can afford to come here, that person should also be able to afford a tutor. It's a shame our schools are so short on funding that we don't have enough tutors for everyone, but natives are also being shut out of that service. I don't think anyone should be given a break for coming here and not speaking the language. I know of no country which has special language privileges for non-native speakers. I can't imagine, for instance, my applying to a college in Utopia, a nation of Esperanto speakers, and then not being expected to take my course work, read, write, and speak in Esperanto fluently in order to earn a degree from that school.

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    1. Plenty of European universities offer all-English degrees. Here's one.

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    2. Across the Seas U is another one, and just one of many such schools in this country (even including some nationally funded universities). Everything but the native-language lit and history courses is taught in English here. Still, once students manage to eke out a passing grade on the basic competency language and writing courses, support for further improvement is at a bare minimum, and could really use strengthening. But as the original post describes, doing so would be a cost that no one wants to incur.

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  5. We had a small stream of non-US students who were barely literate in English. It turns out that they were going to a local CC to take an English class, pass the class (how, I have no idea) then transfer to our school with the language requirement fulfilled. Of course they began to flunk out because they didn't have a clue what was going on in class until the admissions people finally closed that loop hole.

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  6. Wow.

    This post really speaks to me. Yesterday I collected some term papers from those students who elected to take the more complicated version of my course. Since it wasn't everyone, I didn't dedicate a day to sound writing practices. And fuck all do I wish I had.

    This is a senior course, with the occasional junior, and I have yet to come across a SINGLE thesis statement or argument in the batch of 18 papers I've already read through. I only have 8 left for the initial reading, and my expectations for those to include basics like thesis statements have all but disappeared. Half did not cite sources; those who did cite me and my lecture. For a research project. And they did so using the wrong citation style for this discipline.

    Fuck all! This is at an R1 institution. It's not like it's remedial school for dummies. They had to have a really high SAT or ACT score to get through the door. So what gives?

    It really feels like we've all given up on teaching writing. I missed an opportunity by ditching a cursory writing day. But I should have, for even those who did not have a paper due could have benefited from a discussion along those lines.

    Employers tell me all the time they value a good writer over empty credentials. Maybe that's just anecdotal, but it seems important to me. But maybe giving up is all we can do.

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    2. Were these international students? OR just plain lazy-ass students who didn't bother to do what they know they should have because they expected you wouldn't care? I get the same students in a senior-level course whom I had in basic Comp and they then try to claim that they weren't taught how to do a research paper, and at least I have evidence that yes, they managed to do it at least twice for the comp series... yet in two years, no one else made them do that or held them to any level of a standard.

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    3. Oh, they were just basic lazy students. Actually, my one international student (Chinese born raised in Commonwealth country) is the only A in my stack.

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    4. Me, too! Me, too! The one international student in my class had the highest grade in the course.

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  8. Good point, R/G.

    How about this? Three months of boot camp, during which time they take the Vocational Aptitude Battery. If they are deficient in writing and/or math skills they go to school to reach a minimum standard, after which time they start their two-year enlistment in a non-combat capacity. If, after a prescribed time they have not attained minimum standards, they get to begin a four-year career, possibly clearing mines and walking point.

    Right now, there are few harsh consequences for failure.

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    1. They have to be proficient in writing AND math? Why? What level of math are you talking about? You won't find a single profession that doesn't require some proficiency in writing, but I will be shocked if I ever apply for a job that requires more than an eighth grade level proficiency in math (applications for teaching certification aside). My SLAC doesn't even have a math requirement, though we do have two science requirements, a humanities requirement, a language requirement, an art requirement, a social sciences requirement, and, yes, a freshman writing seminar requirement (which, incidentally, rarely if ever counts toward the English major, including the creative writing track).

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    3. To leap to math's defense, I'll offer a couple of thoughts. First, there are a lot of skills that ought to be taught in eighth grade but aren't. I remember a lot of my fellow high schoolers and undergrads couldn't fathom a 'word problem' to save their glutes. In other words, they couldn't apply the math to anything practical unless an equation was laid out for them.

      But that aside, there are several math concepts beyond eighth grade that everyone would benefit from, whether they need them in a job or not. Compound interest and basic statistical reasoning (or just basic probability) leap to mind. A passing familiarity with these concepts would arm a lot of people against some of the more egregious bullshit that passes for wisdom in our society. Darrell Huff's "How to Lie with Statistics" should be required reading.

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  9. The problem is nobody will shoot the president of the college and the trustees and FORCE the institution to train these foreigners in ESL and drill the living shit out of them in English grammar, reading, writing, and informal logic. If anybody bitches, my response is THESE MOTHERFUCKERS PAID FOR AN AMERICAN COLLEGE EDUCATION and I don't care if there is a pile of bodies a thousand feet high, WE WILL GIVE THEM THAT FUCKING EDUCATION.

    America began falling to pieces when it tried to make education a profitable business....if I ran the pigsty, THOSE DAYS WOULD BE OVER.

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  10. @Runner: Eighth grade level is fine. I've run across so many people younger than me who can't make change, or work with fractions. And have you seen the viral video of the girl who can't seem to grasp the concept of "miles per hour?"

    @Strelnikov: I like your thinking Strel. I think the training and drilling should be expanded to include U.S. high school students.

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  11. I thought I was a math moron and then I read this:

    http://www.slate.com/articles/life/human_guinea_pig/2006/11/the_math_moron.html

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  12. Methinks the original post was tinged with irony and sarcasm, much like "A Modest Proposal." Surely Ianthe isn't seriously considering that we abandon teaching writing, or is thinking that there's a realistic prospect of doing so.

    (All right, I'll stop calling you "Shirley.")

    I don't like putting the power of a STEM education into the hands of knuckle-draggers who don't understand people. They need a strong background in the humanities, if for no other reason, to prevent them from designing ugly things that customers don't want to buy. Writing is vital: I am amazed at how well manuals for nuclear reactors are usually written, but they rather need to be.

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    1. My experience is that a poor writer with a shred of self awareness will find someone to work with him or her on the application letters. And when the boss finds out about the lack of writing skills, the kid probably will not be fired. That is how I fell into the science writing gig. I was hired for something quite different. The institution had hired a bunch of technically talented people who were helpless at communicating in writing. When Big Boss found I could turn out reliably decent prose,he set me to work writing letters, reports, and presentations for these people. Big Boss didn't offer me a cent more in salary over the low administrative salary at which I had been hired. After all, said Big Boss, I was just doing the English stuff. Someone else had done the real work.

      I wish I could say that I found this to be an exceptional attitude, but I have not.

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  13. "I have never seen a corporation offer a student an extra nickel in salary because the student is a good writer. Corporations, we are sometimes told, vote with their money. I would say that they have decisively voted that writing is not a skill worth paying for. "

    Except, as has been pointed out, writing ability often determines whether or not the student will be hired. According to this report, writing ability is a threshold skill, crucial in hiring and promotion decisions: http://www.collegeboard.com/prod_downloads/writingcom/writing-ticket-to-work.pdf

    To modify your statement, I'd note that business stresses the importance of writing, yet -- to my best knowledge -- business has never contributed a penny to programs that take writing as their primary concern. Further, we hear from business that they want our students to demonstrate critical, analytical, and problem-solving skills -- yet, again, where's the money to support those programs?

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  14. A separate post for a separate sub-topic:

    Our Uni accepts TOEFL and a term of ESL as adequate for admission, despite the fact that TOEFL has been notoriously compromised and, for many student, ESL schools are about as intense a cross-cultural experience as St. Patrick's Day.

    I'm dealing with fourth-year students who can barely function in spoken English, much less deal with the challenges of academic writing.

    Would entry *and* exit exams be a way to go?

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  15. I've got ESL students who aren't international students, they're domestic students who've been here for more than 10 YEARS, with mother tongue consisting of one of the languages that doesn't have definite or indefinite articles (the, a, etc). No matter how many drafts I go through with a student, when I mark their work I need to insert EVERY definite and indefinite article Every. Fucking. Time.

    My kingdom for a "the"!

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    1. Yep. The Russian students. Americans and Brits disagree on a few things - "in hospital," "at university." But the Bolsheviks grow up without the concept and end up guessing.

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  16. Indeed, I cannot figure out how to teach people who "never read" how to write, and, from what I can tell, the English department hasn't been able to solve this problem, either.

    There's the rub. While I see a lot of broken sentences, grammar errors, etc., many of the writing problems I see could go into a larger category of error, a big box labeled, "Things people would never write if they had ever done much reading." Sometimes there is no formal error. It is just weird. I can see undergrads doing this, still warming up. But I have grad students who write as if they've never seen a text from the field they're studying. Very, very odd.

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