Whoever wrote that article is useless at life..and probably a democrat (not that the two are connected). "Let's form more committees and have more meetings and write more meaningless articles discussing the problem and coming up with more meaningless solutions".
If you want to stop a behavior like plagiarism or illegal immigration or whatever you make the penalties 11 out of 10 on the severity scale. Automatic expulsion for anyone caught violating academic honesty. Except universities will never do that because there goes a cash cow with each expulsion.
What do you want to bet that most of the proffies in the writing-intensive classes at GW are already doing some version of the suggested "best practices"? None of this is new advice, and most proffies in my writing program have followed it for some time. But if students fail to show up for the first week or so of classes (usually because parents scheduled a vacation or a trip to the family's country of origin), when foundational things are taught, and/or ignore all the little "scaffolding"/stage-by-stage assignments we so carefully construct, it doesn't do much good. And if we refuse to accept papers from people who didn't complete the anti-plagiarism exercise and/or do the preliminary steps, then we're overly harsh and making them do busywork and generally interfering with their educations. But when we file honor charges against students who ignored some or all of the above, then it's proof that there's a problem *we* need to fix. And no, at least in my experience, student journalists who self-identify as "writers" are no better about any of the above than the average student.
To some extent, my reaction to this sort of "how we can prevent plagiarism" discussion is similar to my reaction to the periodic "guess what? lecturing isn't the only or most effective way to teach!" articles/columns/blogs: duh.
Personal responsibility isn't something you can fix. If you want to prevent plagiarism then make it so students can't get away with it. The problem fixes itself in the same way that cops keep law abiding citizens law abiding.
Actually, there are two possible responses to that reality:
--one, based on the idea that proffies are gatekeepers, certifying the skills of their students for the good of the larger community, is, indeed, to make sure we prevent, or at least catch and punish, plagiarism (most likely a combination of the two, since it isn't possible to do either 100%, and even getting to 90% takes more time than it may be worth -- see below).
--the other, based on the idea that students are, indeed, responsible for their own educations (and that everyone is responsible first of all to him/herself) is to teach students appropriate citation, but take no particular responsibility beyond the usual grading for catching plagiarism. If students choose to present others' work as their own, and do so successfully, they're simply depriving themselves of an education, and will presumably reap the consequences of that behavior somewhere down the line. Of course, they may also reap some short-term rewards (such as higher grades), and society may suffer in other ways (lawsuits, more competent people not getting the job), but the professor will have more time to spend with students who are actually trying to get an education by doing the work.
I suspect most of us fall somewhere in between these two extremes. I know I do; I'm willing to put some basic procedures in place for deterring and detecting plagiarism, and of course I teach citation skills, but ultimately, if I have to choose between spending time catching/deterring plagiarists, and teaching willing students the skills they need, I'll do the latter.
Without sounding too Big Brother-y here, I wish there was some group on my campus (the Writing and Tutoring Center? the Academic Affairs people?) that would keep track of students reported for plagiarism. Because I have to wonder if Snowflake Bob in my class who claims he didn't know he was plagiarizing was actually caught in another class. I'm all for educating those who honestly don't know (although really--how do you graduate from high school NOT knowing what plagiarism is), but there are many times when I feel that I am yet another in a long line of professors who have given Snowflake Bob a zero and moved him along through the system. But I suppose this information would be confidential so I wouldn't have access to it, even if it were in the best interest of the student to be held accountable from department to department, professor to professor, class to class.
Liz, our Academic VP's office actually keeps all this info. Proffies file paperwork with their office and they keep track to see whether students have a problem (our campus has a three-strikes rule). The individual penalties for our class are up to us, but if a student is a chronic cheater, the Academic VP's office deals with punishment (usually suspension or expulsion).
But all their grandmothers are dead, or are in the middle of kicking the bucket....better you should ask "Do they want the fake Russian to blast their heads open with a Mauser Bolo?"
I have a frank discussion of plagiarism with my students, and I get them to read one of those articles by researchers who say "students plagiarize because they don't understand that copypasta from the web is wrong". In these discussions, when asked to give frank opinions, students say "No, that's crap; we know what plagiarism is. People do it because they are pushed for time, or lazy." More does not solve the problem. Clear guidelines and penalties solve the problem, as does a campus-wide reporting system. If you get caught twice, you go to Plagiarism court, and get sentenced to a variety of penalties, including Re-education camp.
Whoever wrote that article is useless at life..and probably a democrat (not that the two are connected). "Let's form more committees and have more meetings and write more meaningless articles discussing the problem and coming up with more meaningless solutions".
ReplyDeleteIf you want to stop a behavior like plagiarism or illegal immigration or whatever you make the penalties 11 out of 10 on the severity scale. Automatic expulsion for anyone caught violating academic honesty. Except universities will never do that because there goes a cash cow with each expulsion.
That, and the concept of punishment that is commensurate with the crime.
DeleteWhere is the "like" button for Beaker Ben?!
DeleteThat will *totally* work, just like capital punishment is an effective deterrent!
DeleteWhat do you want to bet that most of the proffies in the writing-intensive classes at GW are already doing some version of the suggested "best practices"? None of this is new advice, and most proffies in my writing program have followed it for some time. But if students fail to show up for the first week or so of classes (usually because parents scheduled a vacation or a trip to the family's country of origin), when foundational things are taught, and/or ignore all the little "scaffolding"/stage-by-stage assignments we so carefully construct, it doesn't do much good. And if we refuse to accept papers from people who didn't complete the anti-plagiarism exercise and/or do the preliminary steps, then we're overly harsh and making them do busywork and generally interfering with their educations. But when we file honor charges against students who ignored some or all of the above, then it's proof that there's a problem *we* need to fix. And no, at least in my experience, student journalists who self-identify as "writers" are no better about any of the above than the average student.
ReplyDeleteTo some extent, my reaction to this sort of "how we can prevent plagiarism" discussion is similar to my reaction to the periodic "guess what? lecturing isn't the only or most effective way to teach!" articles/columns/blogs: duh.
Personal responsibility isn't something you can fix. If you want to prevent plagiarism then make it so students can't get away with it. The problem fixes itself in the same way that cops keep law abiding citizens law abiding.
Delete@StockStalker:
DeleteActually, there are two possible responses to that reality:
--one, based on the idea that proffies are gatekeepers, certifying the skills of their students for the good of the larger community, is, indeed, to make sure we prevent, or at least catch and punish, plagiarism (most likely a combination of the two, since it isn't possible to do either 100%, and even getting to 90% takes more time than it may be worth -- see below).
--the other, based on the idea that students are, indeed, responsible for their own educations (and that everyone is responsible first of all to him/herself) is to teach students appropriate citation, but take no particular responsibility beyond the usual grading for catching plagiarism. If students choose to present others' work as their own, and do so successfully, they're simply depriving themselves of an education, and will presumably reap the consequences of that behavior somewhere down the line. Of course, they may also reap some short-term rewards (such as higher grades), and society may suffer in other ways (lawsuits, more competent people not getting the job), but the professor will have more time to spend with students who are actually trying to get an education by doing the work.
I suspect most of us fall somewhere in between these two extremes. I know I do; I'm willing to put some basic procedures in place for deterring and detecting plagiarism, and of course I teach citation skills, but ultimately, if I have to choose between spending time catching/deterring plagiarists, and teaching willing students the skills they need, I'll do the latter.
I think we do about as good of a job catching plagiarists as cops do catching criminals. People get away with stuff all the time.
DeleteWithout sounding too Big Brother-y here, I wish there was some group on my campus (the Writing and Tutoring Center? the Academic Affairs people?) that would keep track of students reported for plagiarism. Because I have to wonder if Snowflake Bob in my class who claims he didn't know he was plagiarizing was actually caught in another class. I'm all for educating those who honestly don't know (although really--how do you graduate from high school NOT knowing what plagiarism is), but there are many times when I feel that I am yet another in a long line of professors who have given Snowflake Bob a zero and moved him along through the system. But I suppose this information would be confidential so I wouldn't have access to it, even if it were in the best interest of the student to be held accountable from department to department, professor to professor, class to class.
ReplyDeleteLiz, our Academic VP's office actually keeps all this info. Proffies file paperwork with their office and they keep track to see whether students have a problem (our campus has a three-strikes rule). The individual penalties for our class are up to us, but if a student is a chronic cheater, the Academic VP's office deals with punishment (usually suspension or expulsion).
ReplyDeleteI am checking to see if we have something like this that I was not made aware of. Sounds exactly like what I was searching for. Thanks!
DeleteSo the ultimate question might be: how do we teach personal responsibility to flakes who have spent their lives being catered to?
ReplyDeleteThis is where Strelnikov comes in.
DeleteYou want me to crush `em, you have to PAY me to crush `em.
DeleteStrelnikov to the rescue!!! Do you take cash?
DeleteA good question for the student to ask before plagiarizing: Would my grandmother approve of what I'm doing?
ReplyDeleteBut all their grandmothers are dead, or are in the middle of kicking the bucket....better you should ask "Do they want the fake Russian to blast their heads open with a Mauser Bolo?"
DeleteI have a frank discussion of plagiarism with my students, and I get them to read one of those articles by researchers who say "students plagiarize because they don't understand that copypasta from the web is wrong". In these discussions, when asked to give frank opinions, students say "No, that's crap; we know what plagiarism is. People do it because they are pushed for time, or lazy." More does not solve the problem. Clear guidelines and penalties solve the problem, as does a campus-wide reporting system. If you get caught twice, you go to Plagiarism court, and get sentenced to a variety of penalties, including Re-education camp.
ReplyDelete