The scenario:I had a student record a lecture without my knowledge. I unfortunately misspoke, however, later realized it and corrected myself. A test question was posed about this subject. The student now wants full credit on the exam, and has produced only the snippet of the audio recording that contains the error, and not the correction/retraction. The student is just WRONG, as the facts around the question as he/she is arguing them is wrong. There are also reading assignments, which have the material correctly stated in them.
The big question, though, is-
What are the rules on recording without the lecturer's knowledge (I've tried to google search, and can't find anything concrete).
What would you do in this situation?
Do you allow audio recording in your classroom?
I always allow students to audio record me, even if they don't ask first. I can tell they're doing it by noticing the recorder. I support this in the classroom. HOWEVER, if one used edited evidence against me, I'd be super pissed about it and forbid the student from getting what he/she wanted.
ReplyDeleteI don't know if there are any hard-and-fast rules, but I do know that one prof at my institution threatened to have a grad student expelled for recording lectures without the prof's prior permission (the grad student had no malicious intent, and certainly didn't pull the kind of crap that your flake is trying to pull). FWIW, the prof sits on the IRB board and has a lot of expertise in intellectual property stuff. The prof settled for making the student give a presentation on the ethics of recording to the entire department.
ReplyDeleteDon't back down. The student IS clearly wrong, in your case. May you be so lucky as to have an administration that will back you up.
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ReplyDeleteI allow students to record lectures when they have the request on a disability form. Would you turn down a blind student? However, privacy laws in my area are such that if another student protests then the lecture cannot be recorded.
ReplyDeleteIf your uni has an ethics clause for student behavior then file a complaint. This crap cannot be tolerated.
An ethics complaint seems quite justified, unless the student is willing to review and turn over all recording subsequent to the one in question, in order to prove that you didn't correct yourself. If they didn't record everything, then they have no proof that you didn't. If they did, they should be required to prove you didn't.
DeleteMy syllabus language is similar: recording is permitted with permission and/or accomdation request, prohibited otherwise. I'm fairly sure one or two people are recording anyway, but as long as it doesn't end up on the internet.....
Colleges have rules on recording lectures. At my college, it is against policy to record lectures unless the student has ADA accommodations.
ReplyDeleteIt is for this very reason that I always record my own classes. I am convinced that eventually, some student is going to use an edited recording to try to wiggle out of some requirement, or file a complaint about my "bias" (my particular hamster field involves some areas of controversy, and I am not shy about teaching them).
ReplyDeleteTwo things: first, do not give in to this student. You made a correction, which they missed, and the exam was on all of lecture, not just part of it. If they do not want to lose points, do not give them points. Grade out of 95 or something.
ReplyDeleteSecond, this is one of those things that experience forces you to put on next year's syllabus:
"The recording of lecture must be requested in the first week of class and is subject to approval."
I don't ever let students record my class. Ever. They have to sign a contract acknowledging (in part) that they will not record it.
ReplyDeleteI talk fast, and throw a lot of material at my students. Mostly to present a concept for 2 minutes, then spend 8 minutes giving different examples of that concept, all the while talking at a rapid pace. So, I don't mind if they record my lectures. However if I was presented with what you're dealing with, I'd simply state flat out that I remember correcting myself later in the lecture, and the only resolution is for the student to produce the entire unedited audio file to assert that my recollection is wrong, which it is not.
ReplyDeleteI think we have to assume that some of them will be recording us, whether we officially allow it or not. The existence of those pens that both record and link the recording to written notes, not to mention cell phones and laptops and tablets with built-in mics, has normalized the practice to a point where many students probably just assume it's okay (just as they assume it's okay to take a picture of anyone pretty much anytime and anywhere, and to post it on the internet). I don't lecture much, but I've noticed students using both the recording pens and placing cell phones strategically during conferences, and, though I'd rather they asked first, and it makes me somewhat self-conscious, I don't really mind (I never give grade estimates orally during conference anyway; either they turn in a draft and I get to think about it beforehand, or they get oral comments but no preliminary grade). I don't think I'd mind if they recorded lectures for their own use, either, but yes, putting it up on the internet would be another matter (though I'm not sure exactly what the legal issue involved would be, nor am I even sure who would own copyright in my lectures if I lectured, and/or if the university officially recorded them, though I believe it *should* be me, if only because I should have the freedom to deliver them elsewhere as well).
ReplyDeleteI also wonder how many of them ever listen to the recordings they make. After all, if they can barely sit through a lecture with a live person doing hir best to be at least a bit engaging in front of them, how are they going to make it through an audio-only recording? That's the virtue of the pen, I guess; you can skip around, which may be what this student did.
For the situation at hand, Prof Poopiehead has the right answer, I think: it's on the student to show that you *didn't* correct yourself; otherwise, your memory that you did prevails. And if your university has a policy about recording that the student violated, then the discussion is moot.
I would yell out I KNOW YOU ARE TAPING ME, YOUR GRADE IS IN JEOPARDY...OOH LOOK IT'S GOING DOWN A LETTER GRADE FOR EVERY FIVE MINUTES OF TAPE!
ReplyDeleteMy institution has a rule that students must ask first. I don't care if they do and I assume that students expect that they are allowed to without my consent. Still, a few ask at the beginning of the semester, which I think is sweet.
ReplyDeleteHere's another reason not to back down. Did lots of other students get the question wrong based on your incorrect statement? If the rest managed to figure out the correct answer, then that supports your argument that there are sufficient resources, including your own correction, for students to figure out the right answer.
I was about to say "I would assume that blackmail is illegal where you live? Report them to the police." Then I realized that I think I read your entry wrong, and the student is not threatening to "take it to the top." Maybe I just have had too many of my own students try to pull that kind of crap on me.
ReplyDeleteI tell them specifically not to record me, but they still do. I am not sure what can be done about it.
Wow, most of you are lucky! We were informed that we have no choice in the matter. Recording is legal, and we cannot prohibit it under any circumstances. I think this is in keeping with my college's policy that any intellectual property we produce (which I assume includes our course materials and delivery) is jointly owned by us and them if we create it as part of our employment during working hours or as part of our duties. (Keep in mind this a CC, so research publications aren't a big player.)
ReplyDeleteI teach mainly online and we are required to communicate by e-mail only through the campus account. So every interaction with the student that is not by telephone is recorded anyway. That REALLY helped me one time when a student made ridiculous claims about me. I could demolish the student's case point for point with exact references to hard evidence about what really happened. So sometimes recording can be a good thing.
ReplyDeleteI too wonder how many students actually get around to listening to the lectures again. I imagine very few.
The college class I remember best was an American History class. The prof had his doctorate and knew his stuff. I learned more about history in that class than I had up to that point. He made it more about dates, he also had stories that illustrated the points he was making.
ReplyDeleteHe was such a gifted lecturer, dare I say entertaining, that I sometimes forgot to take notes. I started taking a little cassette recorder (this was back in the mid-70's) so I could just absorb the lecture. I would transcribe the lecture into notes the next day on the bus to and from work, as it was a two-day per week evening class.
To be fair, back then there was no overwrought mania of some student getting twisted out of shape because I taped him asking or answering a question. We all seemed to get along because we didn't think the universe revolved around us the way some precious snowflakes seem to think it does.
The college class I remember best was an American History class. The prof had his doctorate and knew his stuff. I learned more about history in that class than I had up to that point. He made it more about dates, he also had stories that illustrated the points he was making.
ReplyDeleteHe was such a gifted lecturer, dare I say entertaining, that I sometimes forgot to take notes. I started taking a little cassette recorder (this was back in the mid-70's) so I could just absorb the lecture. I would transcribe the lecture into notes the next day on the bus to and from work, as it was a two-day per week evening class.
To be fair, back then there was no overwrought mania of some student getting twisted out of shape because I taped him asking or answering a question. We all seemed to get along because we didn't think the universe revolved around us the way some precious snowflakes seem to think it does.