Juco Jerry here, in my first full year as a tenure-track community college proffie in Michigan.Surely most people know about the awful retention rates in community college classes. I'm told that about 58% of students who start classes here actually finish them - not pass - just finish, sometimes wheezing.
Obviously many of community college students have jobs and families that are priorities, and with the TINY tuition they pay (less than $200 a class here), bailing is not the end of the world.
But recently I've found out another reason why students do their best to hang in, but often don't finish. They get rewarded for it.
I have had these half-attending students all year. Folks who come around enough not to bust the attendance policy too badly, but not enough to be earning anything like a passing grade. Foolishly I try to encourage them, talk to them, and they just smile. "Yo, Jerry, It's all right. I'm hanging in there."
And then sometime late in the term they fade away, drop on their own, or let me drop them.
Why?
Because the longer they're registered in my class the more of their financial aid money they get to keep.
Old timers around here are bemused that I'm just finding this out now.
Does this happen everywhere?
Welcome, Jerry. (Or do you prefer Juco?)
ReplyDeleteYes, some new rules went into effect a couple of years ago around here--when we enter a grade of F, we have to enter F16 or F6 or whatever number corresponds to the number of weeks the student was physically present in the class, because they can be made to return their financial aid. I even put a statement about it on my syllabus--though I'm not sure anyone actually really does hunt them down and shake the loose change out of their pockets.
I have one F2, presently. Still registered but hasn't shown up since week 2. My theory is that the little bastard will show up at the end so that he can keep his FA, but I don't take attendance the last week of classes. I have a bunch of F10s right now (showing up periodically but not turning anything in). So I'm guessing that at least a few of them fit the scenario in your post. I've also had students stay in my class so that they wouldn't be dropped from their parents' health insurance.
Your first lesson in their ways of gaming the system. Welcome to higher ed.
My very first semester at a similar institution to yours, Jerry, I had a student show up for two weeks and then vanish to have surgery (with a doctors note). The surgery? The boob job she bought with her financial aid money.
ReplyDeleteSo ... did she earn a couple D's after all?
DeleteIf we had a Comment Reply of the Week, I'd hand you the award myself.
DeleteIt's a huge problem at my SLAC. It's so bad that our college got in trouble with the government and so we actually have implemented procedures for dealing with this.
ReplyDeleteI've always wanted to be a fly on the wall when snowflakes find out that they have to pay financial aid back. Oh the entitlement that must ensue!
Yeah, if they government hasn't cracked down on your school yet, they will soon. Of course, the ultimate consequence of all this fraud is that my uni now has to hire a bunch more administrators to make sure students aren't scamming financial aid...which means less money for instruction. Higher ed is just a complete butt fuck these days.
ReplyDeleteIn a word, Yes.
ReplyDeleteBut, like BurntChrome said, it's become a little more complicated lately. The feds keep a closer eye on them now and depending on their "last date of attendance" it affects how much they have to pay back.
Students are also mindful of when the last disbursement of Financial Aid occurs. While the feds have specific guidelines as the when that occurs, each school can set their "last day to drop." Conveniently, my institution's last day to drop is a week or so after last disbursement.
Then you get into things like Financial Aid Probation. Once you're on probation you stay on probation. If you slip up, you're put on Financial Aid Suspension (no more money for you). Suspension has an appeals process at most schools. Sometimes (let's be honest, Every time) you can get reinstated if you jump through the right hoops, but you stay on Probation. Mess up again, rinse repeat.
There are checks and balances in place, but if a student wants to work the system it's easily within the realm of someone without a college degree to do.
Yes, we also have to enter last day of attendance for every student who drops now. I have dropped students prior to the date of record only to have them tell me their counselor or financial aid has told them to call me to ask for reinstatement so they can drop themselves later.
ReplyDeleteOkay, I don't understand this. Are they keeping grants? Most Financial Aid are loans -- really terrible, killer loans. Is this just that they want a loan but can't get it without faking being a student? It's not free money or anything.
ReplyDeletePlease elaborate.
From the Kirkwood CC in Cedar Rapids, IA.
DeleteWhen making plans to finance their education, where do college students go? They go to scholarships, savings or personal grants from clubs, businesses and family.
But mostly students go to the Financial Aid office at Kirkwood Community College where students can get approved for loans, scholarships and grants courtesy of the United States taxpayer.
Most students use aid for the right reasons, which is their education and enriching their future. Yet there are some who use it for a Jet Ski and even cosmetic surgery. Using federal student loans for someone's gain is known as financial aid abuse.
According to the Government Accountability Office, more than $1 billion per year is lost due to financial aid abuse. It may be a lot but thankfully only a handful of students in this country abuse the system. So for those abusers this question lingers: Why do they do it?
"There are no credit checks for a federal student loan and it is easier," said Nick Borders, a financial aid advisor at Kirkwood.
Borders explained why it is easier for students to get a student loan from the federal government than through private banks. He said private banks go through a person's financial history including a credit history, income-to-expenses ratio and past business with banks. They don't go through that with federal student loans.
For students who abuse the financial aid system there are consequences by both the college and the federal government.
According to Borders, students who are caught abusing the financial aid system could face time in prison or a $ 20,000 fine or possibly both. It could be worse for students who abuse the system and don't repay any loans. They could face wage garnishments and their credit history could be destroyed.
So what can we do to stop this? We can educate students about financial aid, including financial aid abuse.
Education is always key when it comes to financial aid, so students can know what and how much they can borrow. That way they won't have massive debt when they graduate.
It is important that students know about financial aid and the consequences of abuse. If you abuse the system you will end up reaping the consequences.
I appreciate the really long response there, Darla, but I don't think that information illuminates the problem.
DeleteIs the problem that people are trying to get as many grants as possible, ie, free money? This seems unlikely to me, since I recall grants being about $500 while tuition was $7000 or $13000 or whatever.
Or is the problem that they are just trying to access the loans? Loans which they will eventually have to pay back anyway so this whole problem is pretty short-sighted since they will be sacrificing their financial future?
In other words: am I right in saying this is a really stupid "scam" these students are pulling since they are screwing themselves?
I don't get it!!!
Monkey, you are spot on. Students generally need to have a minimum number of credits to get loans, so they take that many credits but don't finish all the classes. They are completely screwing themselves, but no matter how much you repeat it, the kids really don't seem to think about what paying back the loans will mean. They figure that there must be a way out of it.
DeleteI'm sorry I didn't give you the answer you were looking for, but in my experience teaching at a CC for a number of years, that's exactly what students did, collected endless small chunks of financial aid, using it for living expenses instead of books, etc.
DeleteI saw it countless times. Tuition at the CC is NOTHING like the numbers you use. A student could take a full load of classes for a semester at my college for less than $500. But add that to $1200 for books, etc., and that's money they know they're not going to pay back, on loans they didn't have to qualify for.
Monkey, you don't get it? There's nothing to get. Students take the financial aid money and use it to pay rent or buy a Wii. They don't even think about paying it back.
DeleteThere was a great White House summit about this and one panelist talked about students hopping from college to college when their right to apply for aid got suspended.
They don't think they'll have to pay the loans back because you can't get blood from a stone.
And it works, too. It's epidemic.
I think it's worth pointing out that these "students" are hurting others by taking up the limited supply of loan money available and requiring increased oversight by colleges and the government. This costs money that could be better spent elsewhere, as Harpy mentioned above.
DeleteP.S. Paying for rent or health insurance is allowable using student loan money. I suspect the number of people using their loan money to buy cars and boob jobs is rather low, if perhaps clustered at certain schools. I think scamming grant money is abominable, but using student loan money to pay your rent is often a good use of the cash. Not as good as a well-paying job at the college might be, but those are few and far between nowadays. Can;t pay rent with that part-time job at the library like you could in 1960-whatever!
DeleteThere are already rules in place for cracking down on student loan abuse. Just most schools refuse to use them. For instance, a student who fails to appear term after term and keeps getting high volumes of loans should be stopped. At the loan level, not just the school level. That's where the change needs to happen.
Okay everything is clear now. I thoughts there was a dimension to the scam that involved actual free money, but no they are just wracking up insane loans. Hoooo boy.
DeleteI think I may be seeing a slight uptick in this at my school (a state R2), but we're talking going from almost never having someone on my rolls who never showed up and never dropped to having 2-3 a semester (out of c. 90).
ReplyDeleteWe, too, have a system of reporting how long they attended (if at all), but given how well they grasp all the other logistical details of the whole endeavor, I suspect that not all of them know that. Then again, it sounds like your students are quite savvy about this, so maybe I'm underestimating them.
I've also heard tell (not at school, but in other venues) of parents taking out loans, paying tuition, and then appropriating the "extra" (presumably meant to pay for the student's books and/or other expenses) to their own use. Obviously these are not good or wise parents. I hope the loans are at least in their names alone, but I fear the students might also be signatories.
At Large Urban Community College, the most common form of financial aid by far is the Pell Grant, and those do not have to be paid back as long as the student stays enrolled for a certain number of weeks. The new "satisfactory academic progress" policy, which requires a certain GPA and progress toward a degree, is starting to impede the professional student whose objective is to get enough money to pay rent, buy groceries, and attend class on occasion; however, they do still exist.
ReplyDeleteOne of my students just told me he couldn't buy the book for my class because his car needed new rims. NEEDED.
ReplyDeleteOh, and he used his financial aid check to buy those new rims. Did I forget to mention that?
DeleteAnd democrats wonder why republicans are unsympathetic towards social welfare programs.
DeleteAnd Republicans wonder why Democrats are so wary about consumerism.
DeleteRemember how, a few days or weeks ago, someone wondered what level of proficiency in mathematics college students should have? And remember how someone answered that 8th-grade proficiency would be fine? This is a prime example of that.
ReplyDeleteStudents at 8th-grade proficiency should understand how compound interest works. They should also understand what NON-DISCHARGEABLE means, Nando.
Students at 8th-grade proficiency should also be able to balance a checkbook. If they did, they would be less susceptible to manipulation by politicians who promise to cut taxes, increase defense spending, balance the budget, and not use drugs.
Schools like mine (eager to enroll students) are caught in a bind. On the one hand, they want to sign everyone up so they can puff up enrollment and receive tuition. On the other hand, students that attempt to game the system damage the institution as a whole, and bring down the wrath of the federal government.
ReplyDeleteThe student him or herself? I don't pity them. And I don't worry about them "stealing" money from the government. The government will get their money eventually. Student loan debt is not eradicated even by bankruptcy. Those students would be better off charging up credit cards.
The United States Government will find them and take their pound of flesh. Unless the student plans on never getting a job, of course. Ever.
I have a friend who bailed out on his grad school loans. It was a matter of months before Uncle Sam found him and began garnishing his wages. Those students using their loans for boob jobs will fare no better. Them or their boobs.
But boob jobs could end up being an investment because of the extra earnings such women may earn. I'm not even talking about entertainment and advertising, the sex trade, the hospitality business and similar professions. Attractive women in just about every profession have and advantage even when merit matters.
DeleteThis also reminds me of my friend, who was born into a very poor family in Oklahoma. He was really smart, graduated top of his class, got some scholarships to defray but not cover his undergrad years. He is part Native American, so he wanted to become an American historian, to tell the story of his people from a national point of view.
ReplyDeleteHe took some loans for undergrad. Got into an Ivy for his master's, but had to take more loans (if I explained why, you'd know what school I mean). Ended up at another cheaper university for PhD, but still ended up maxing out his lifetime allotment: $138,000. Now he is one more of a million American historians with no particular reason to be hired and no possible way to ever climb out from under this debt. He wants to get married and start a family, but can't.
There has to be a better way to allow smart kids from poor backgrounds to go to school without this kind of terrible decision making.
There is a job announcement at the Smithsonian that is about to close that would be perfect for him. They are looking for someone who specializes in Native America. Tell him to go to usajobs.gov and check it out.
DeleteWe have these neat little cards that we have to sign saying that a student has been in our class prior to that card. Then, they get their money and attendance drops dramatically. There are some tricks we can use, though. You don't have to give a card to a student who disappears then shows up once just for a card. Also, if students get D's financial aid won't pay for them to retake the class, only if they get an F. I know some people who keep their D's down to like 50% for this reason.
ReplyDeleteGood information...
ReplyDeleteboob jobs on finance