Many students from Inner City Community College are hoping to have careers in the health care field. A huge percentage of these hopefuls are trying to become nurses. It's a competitive field. Around here, you have to get an "A" in everything (including, alas, Composition) to have a shot at nursing school.
Hopeful Healthcare Hannah did, in fact, get an "A" in my class. She also earned the record for being one of the biggest pains in the ass I have ever met (and I've met some doozies!). She asked questions about every. obvious. thing. She wrote draft after draft, never happy with the grade she earned the first time. I'm talking about 3-4 drafts per assignment, and we have five assignments. I allowed it----she seemed to be working hard. I read and commented on draft after draft. She met with me at Every. Single. Stage. of the writing process. She was in my office more than any other student, before or since. She was....unique. "Hannah, you have read the letter, now I'll print it out and place it into an official envelope and sign my name across the seal. That's the way they want it over at Inner City SLAC Nursing School." No, she assured me, they want her to staple it to the back of her application.
"Hannah----I've done lots of these. I'm pretty sure of how they want it. Why don't you call them?"
Hannah did not have their number. Could she use my computer to look it up? Visions of Hannah treating me one day in the ER flashed through my head. "No, Hannah, why don't you go out to the lounge, get into contact with them (I'm sure the number is somewhere in your paperwork) and give them a call." Hannah looked at me coldly. She was unimpressed with my lack of help. She and I had actually clashed about this before----with her accusing me of not being a good professor at one point when she felt I was not giving her enough help. I had forgotten just how much of a pain she actually was, and began wishing I had not written the letter. "Listen," Hannah told me. "This is due TODAY. This is my FUTURE and I want to get this DONE. Will you please just print it out?"
I kept my face absolutely expressionless. "Sure, Hannah. No problem." I printed it out, handed it to her, and even lent her my stapler. I fumed a bit as I watched her scurry across the grass toward IC SLAC's admissions building, and then promptly forgot all about Hopeful Hannah. My office hours were over, and I decided to leave the premises.
Today, I had a frantic message taped to my door. Could I please print out another copy of the letter, put it into the envelope and leave it taped to the door by the end of the day (left yesterday).
Posts like this are why I keep coming back...Hannah, what a pain! We all have her, Bella...
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteDeleted. Because what I said wasn't nice. I was having a day.
DeleteI'm just so glad you were already gone =-)
ReplyDeleteUgh, but you did what you could. The student can't complain that you did what she asked.
ReplyDeleteI was surprised that you let her read your letter. Why?
In these here parts, it's pretty common to just hand the student the letter, and most of them expect it. I know....it's not what would have been required for any program I applied to, either.
DeleteInner City SLAC does things their way. But most of the time, colleges and U's want the letter submitted electronically, now a days. In this case, Hannah came to me and asked for the letter that same day. Which, of course, is an annoying detail that did not make it to my final draft of my post......But anyway, since she was right there, waiting for me to finish, and since she was going to hand deliver everything, I did not mind her reading the letter.
Of course. With this type of story, it's almost assumed that she needs the letter on the day that it is due.
DeleteOy. Good riddance. I've had low-performing students ask for letters of recommendation, one of whom received a "D"! I've told them, "Look, you scraped by with a 'C.' I can't write a very impressive letter." In these cases, a couple of them actually STILL wanted the letter. I told the truth, sending the "recommendation" via email. I never found out what transpired.
ReplyDeleteBella,
ReplyDeleteYou're great. But if I were you, I would have whipped out the condescension and said something like "I've been doing this, JUST THIS, for years. What are the chances you're right and I'm wrong on this one? Think about it. THIS IS WHAT I DO. What are the CHANCES?"
That is because you are a nicer, kinder person than I am. I was sick of her and internally decided, even non verbally, to let her shoot her damn self in the foot.
DeleteYou did the right thing. Inner City SLAC Nursing School is surely thanking you for letting natural selection to play out in this case.
DeleteThis is has happened to me too many times. So now I print a second copy that I put in the signed envelope, and make this deal, "You cannot have the first without taking the second."
ReplyDeleteHelping students solve their problem when they actively fight against you is a qualification for sainthood.
DeleteMay I ask that you write a letter for my five-year professional development file (which is post-tenure review but we don't call it that)? It's not due until five pm today, so you have lots of time, and all you need to do is mention that thing about sainthood, and then......
DeleteWhen I read these stories, I think back to my own academic past.
ReplyDeleteI was not an A student; I was an A- student. This means that I generally had lots of A grades in courses, but also the occasional B, B+, and A- to drop my GPA just that little bit. And, I must admit, I was REFUSED letters of rec by profs in whose courses I had outright earned an A!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Let's think about this... because I am sure I am not the only one this happened to... there was once a past where students who had grades of A and A- in courses were OPENLY REFUSED what I now regularly hear are demands by B, C, and even D students.
You know when our whiniest students whinge "It's not faaaaaaaaaaaaaair!"??? Yeah, having had that experience and encountering them makes me wish I had Frod's stapler handy.
Fairness. The other f-word of teaching. They fail to distinguish between something that goes against them and something that actually isn't fair. It's quite a worldview - anything that goes against me is unfair. Welcome to life, kids.
DeleteI recently had a very similar student ask me for a letter of recommendation for a nursing program. I told her that I would be happy to write it. I instructed her to just give me the information and who I should send it to, and I will do it for her. She responded to my e-mail by saying that she just wanted the recommendation to add to her application. I responded to her e-mail, that it didn't work that way, and that I would only send a sealed envelope with my signature across the front. I never heard back from her. Problem solved.
ReplyDeleteYes. Yay. Good.
DeleteI don't want to give the impression that I am defeated. I think of it as choosing battles. Where I am full time, we need to be accommodating.
I do, however, write honest, if a bit circumspect, letters of rec.
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DeleteBella, I think your approach was perfectly suited to the circumstances, for reasons I hope to articulate in this comment, albeit somewhat buried in a narrative.
ReplyDeleteI write a lot of letters for students who want to matriculate at the Urban Oasis STEM grad program across town (they've even given me a dropbox to send them electronically). I write three basic types:
1) Polish the turd. Although this student is struggling in my program, zhe might excel in the proper learning environment. A year in a post-bacc program before entering your program might improve hir chances for success.
2) Diamond in the rough. This student struggled when entering my program but has turned it around and excelled ever since. Continued success in your program is likely.
3) Platinum. Take this student. You'll thank yourself later.
For types 2 and 3, my success rate is quite high, both for the students to be accepted, and for them to be in the top half of their class at UOSTEM. It is my firm belief that I do neither UOSTEM nor the student any favor if I overpromote a type 1, for they will be in over their head. Another long-term effect of such overhyping would be that my recs for types 2 and 3 would lose credibility.
On the flipside, a type 2 or 3 student who can't navigate the hoops to complete their application portfolio in the proper format and timetable might just be a "stealth type 1." They've made themselves look good enough on paper and even snowed me enough in our personal interactions to allow me to write a type 2 or 3 letter, but they're apparently not truly ready for UOSTEM. If they are accepted, they will struggle with the program's pace and our outcomes data indicate there's a very good chance they'll crash and burn, which would also compromise my program's relationship with UOSTEM.
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DeleteI am quite at peace when a stealth 1 is rejected over something I didn't know when I wrote their letter. My Zen outlook has been reinforced by certain events. More than once, a type 2 or 3 was interviewed by UOSTEM but for some reason denied. The students then fell apart; flaked out; didn't show up for class; skipped shifts at their work-study jobs at student health, tutoring centers, etc.; and didn't even tell their supervisors they were playing hookey. WTF?
This tells me that the interviewers picked up something I hadn't, and overall, the admissions process at UOSTEM is doing what it should. So that I don't subvert that process, beyond writing the letter in a timely fashion, I don't generally help the student with the application process. Again, successfully navigating the process may be predictive of future success, and the inverse is perhaps more true.
Every now and then I'll get an email like, "Hey i didn;t get into UOSTEM last year but im reapplying can you send my LOR again?" Here I'll nudge a little. "Would you like to meet and talk about what you've done to improve your portfolio since then, in case it might help me update your letter?" If they respond "LOL no just send the one from last year," then I often just pull up the letter, change the date, see if I can add a remark about spring semester grades that weren't available when I wrote the first draft, and send it off.
If the student comes in for conference, one of the things I ask is, "How do you handle failure?" My hope is that they don't say, "I haven't failed anything," because if they do, I'll have to remind them that they failed to get into UOSTEM last cycle. Whether they do or don't, hopefully what follows is a productive conversation in which they enumerate what they've learned from the setback and steps they've taken to succeed going forward. Then, I can add a few lines about their resilience and determination to the letter.
In these cases, it's true that I'm going a bit beyond merely writing the letter, but I'm also gathering data that speak to whether I should downgrade my original recommendation. Usually I don't have to---even ones who flaked after the first rejection have pulled it together, but I am always extra careful with them.
I'm finding myself saying "no" to recommendation requests more often. In some cases, that's because students are asking me very early in the first semester I've taught them (so I've now made up a rule, on the spot, that I don't write recommendations until I've seen at least a draft of the major assignment for the class). Of the two who asked me this semester, I suspect I'll be happy to recommend one, and one might merit the "thrives in a supportive environment" or similar comment ("zhe is assiduous in confirming hir understanding of the directions associated with both major and minor assignments," maybe?).
ReplyDeleteI've also found myself saying no to low-B students who reappear after 3 or 4 semesters, and who I, frankly, can barely remember. In those cases, I find myself offering the advice that recommendations for grad school are best written by professor's in one's own department (I teach core courses exclusively), and then, sometimes, having to offer advice for what to do if none of the professors the student has had in the major meet the qualifications for recommenders (e.g. the student has had no direct contact with actual professors, only with grad or even undergrad TAs). In one case, I found myself opining (whether correctly or not, I'm not sure) that the department must be aware of the issue, and have a workaround in place (e.g. having the instructor of record or the chair sign a letter written, or at least drafted, by the TA),and telling the student to talk to hir academic advisor and/or chair. I'm not sure whether the student was misunderstanding the requirements and/or the status of some of hir instructors, but it seems plausible that, as my institution polishes its self-identification as a "research university," students are spending less time with actual Ph.D.s in their own departments (as opposed to Ph.D.s in contingent positions teaching service classes in humanities departments).
And that would be "professors in one's own department," not "professor's in one's own department." Yikes. I hate randomly-sprinkled apostrophes, and now I'm apparently sprinkling them myself.
Delete> "zhe is assiduous in confirming hir understanding of the directions associated with both major and minor assignments"
Delete::chortle::
A brilliant piece of damning with faint praise.
Back in the days when social media was an nth generation xeroxed sheet, I saw a list of phrases allegedly used in letters of recommendation in the US armed forces. "Works well under close supervision or when cornered like a trapped rat" was my hands down favorite, but I don't think I could bring myself to use it even when earned.
Yours on the other hand I could go with.
Yeah, I loved that list, and I love Cassandra's line that should be added to it.
DeleteCaptain Subtext is on holiday, so Captain Obvious will translate:
Student emailed me with all kinds of questions, the answers to which were in the assignment prompts in the LMS, if they weren't in the syllabus.
Brilliant, Cassandra!
DeleteThank you! I don't know whether I'd actually dare write that (I think I'd try to get out of writing at all first), but hey, it's fun to write it here (and, as usual, serves as a bit of a pressure-release-valve).
DeleteCaptain Obvious' translation is also 100% correct. There may also have been some instances of emails saying "I'm sorry I got the post up late" -- i.e. after class, when you read them while we were reading each others' and offered group and one-on-one feedback on the spot -- "but I was working really hard and can you please go take a look at mine right now and give me comments and by the way I hope I won't lose any points for being late." In other words, a request for immediate on-the-student's-schedule one-on-one attention that I'm pretty sure the student sees as "being a good student," but which would make my job absolutely impossible if even 1/4-1/3 of my students tried it.
I have a colleague who once handed the student a recommendation letter for med school in a sealed envelope; the student then took the letter to her physician father, who opened it up, read it, and with some experience in med school admissions gave instructions to his daughter to take back to the professor on where to beef up the letter and what key phrases to use, in a 2nd draft recommendation letter that was to be submitted to the med school. Of course, my colleague said "HELL NO!"
ReplyDeleteOh, it would be more than "hell no" for me. It would be, "You need to get a different letter writer."
DeleteBella, I'm speculating here, but I think Hannah came to you because as contentious as your relationship was at times, she felt that she had a real connection with you. And you knew how hard she was willing to work to get the job done right.
ReplyDeleteShe could be a "stealth type 1" in my nomenclature: academically solid but struggling with "soft skills" that she could well pick up in the near future. The entitlement manifest in her case often correlates with little experience in "the real world", so I'm assuming she reached your class on a straight path that started in kindergarten. A year out of school, immersed in an environment where it's more clear who is the boss, might adjust her perspective on what it means to be "helpful." She needs that perspective to make it through her training and within her chosen career of caregiver.
Hi OPH. I agree that she knew I understood and appreciated that she is a hard worker. Hannah is the type who gives everyone a hard time. So from her point of view, the relationship was not even very contentious (I'm guessing).
DeleteWe do have kind of a connection. But I don't feel bad about letting her shoot herself in the foot. As you said, she really could pick up the "soft skills" she is lacking in the near future and I hope she does and wish her well!
I'm seeing a small but steady increase in what I'd call the "anxious student" (officially diagnosed or not), who is probably a subset of OPH's "stealth type 1," with the lacking "soft skill" being management of their own cognition, via learned self-talk skills, medication, or both. Operating in an unfamiliar language and/or culture may increase such problems, though they are by no means limited to L2 learners (nor do anywhere near all L2 learners exhibit such anxieties).
DeleteThe tricky part is that such students often seem to believe that by checking their understanding of the assignment and/or the quality of their work with the professor, or otherwise asking for "help," frequently, they are being "good students," when from the professor's viewpoint -- especially if they actually are getting the gist of the class pretty well, and there are other students who are more in need of help to get to that point -- they're being a real pain, or at least a persistent irritant. I've now had at least two students who voiced the thought that they were doing just fine writing their papers while sitting beside me, and they'd like to write the whole (8-10 page!) paper that way, without apparently recognizing just how unworkable, alarming, ridiculous, etc. that idea sounded from my point of view.
If the student actually gets angry, at least on occasion, when the professor refuses to participate exactly as expected way in the anxiety-calming "getting help" ritual, then that makes the tension more obvious, but it can be there nonetheless. In some ways, I think we'd be doing such students a favor by making it a bit more obvious (e.g. telling them we only have so much time to spend "helping" any one student). But there are all kinds of forces working against that, from our own niceness to the various student-satisfaction measures in place.
Nevertheless, weaning will have to occur at some point, because bosses just don't have time or energy to provide this sort of "support" for their workers.
I vacillate between thrilled that students are asking for help, and whimpering over the hand holding expected by some of them. I'm also in awe of my student's abilities to MISunderstand directions. I've started reviewing directions in class, and asking if they have any questions. I'm catching more of the simple misunderstandings in class, and also getting more and more willing to let the one's who can't follow directions fail.
ReplyDeleteAn ex-colleague who was worn out by misunderstandings had a thing where he’d go over something by saying raise your hand if you DO understand.
DeleteHe said it worked because a) it was less threatening than asking the students to single themselves out by admitting that they were unclear on something, and b) you have a bunch of people who are effectively volunteering for some Socratic checking on what the instructions entail.
Oh, sweet. I'm stealing this.
Delete