Oh, all right: how about petulant undergraduates who act like children who absolutely insist I drop everything that instant and attend to their every, every desire no matter what they see me fully occupied with, even though they'll live if they aren't gratified that very second?
Bama Fans and LSU Fans who have no true connections to the universities. So not alumni but sports fans. Well, fans when the teams are winning.... Why? Because they MAKE me hate them--and I want to be like OPH.
Such individuals seem to have much in common with the jerks who get violent at political rallies. Yes, they can be disappointing, but there will probably never be a shortage of human behaviors that disappoint. And for me at least, before people exhibiting such behaviors could make me hate them, I'd have to care enough about how that behavior affects me to form an opinion. But I don't, so I "nothing" them.
Personally: I was once befriended by a man who I now believe is a sociopath. It has taken me years to figure out the ways he manipulated me. He caused a lot of psychic damage, which has only recently led me to realize I hate him for it. Like literally, passionately, grateful I will never see him again because I don;t know what I would do level hate.
Professionally: The program and school from which I received my MA. The program is now defunct, the professors were opportunistic and routinely misled students as to professional prospects, and the instruction was sub-par (when compared to the schools I attended after leaving). The university allowed this to happen (despite a decade of warning signs), and found all sorts of creative ways to steal money from the students via fees, etc. Biggest waste of time and money. The Master's degree is now worthless. Hate them for it. If the place burned down or got audited by the IRS, I would smile with satisfaction.
This seems to be another area in which OPH and I are on the same wavelength: though I can think of one potential candidate (in my personal/family life), I really can't/don't hate anyone. This may be an occupational hazard of being an academic (or at least one kind of academic), or perhaps a personality trait that leads to being an academic: I tend to see most people, and most situations, as complex, capable of being seen from varying perspectives.
None of the above rules out my hating more abstract things, including illness, both mental (to which I'd attribute much of bad human behavior) and physical (though I also recognize that as an inevitable part of life). Even there, I'm not sure that "hate" is quite the right word, since it suggests a degree of vehemence I don't feel (at least not at present; if I were more in the middle of a crisis caused by one of those things, I suspect I might feel that vehemence).
I do, however, feel perfectly justified in doing everything I can to stay out of the sphere of influence/power of people such as anon y mouse describes above, but I suspect that's more easily done if one doesn't actively hate them, which allows them a certain amount of brain space.
And, though I'm comfortable with the level of equanimity I'm feeling right now, I do hope that I would actively oppose evil or injustice which I had any hope of preventing, whether or not I felt hate for it, or the people perpetrating it. There's such a thing as too much equanimity.
Please, don't attribute "much of bad human behavior" to mental illness. Stigma is oppressive and everywhere, and fighting it is exhausting. Humans are perfectly capable of behaving badly on both small and large levels without mental illness playing a role.
I'm not saying that mental illness doesn't cause bad behavior. I'm currently too ill and too guilty of such to deny that. But perfectly healthy people bear the brunt of bad/nasty/awful behavior. Yet we quickly attribute this behavior to those with mental illnesses. We have enough to contend with.
I don't hate anyone I know personally. But I despise thieving prosperity-gospel televangelists. One of the joys of finding there is a god would be knowing what's awaiting those sucking parasites. I'll leave aside terrorists as obvious.
Well, I don't hate them, but I feel emasculated (sorry for the gender-specific wordl I'm talking about power here) by the university for whom I adjunct. My ten grand a year doesn't stretch as far as you'd think it would. However, I did get to share an office last semester with only one other person--not ten others, which had been the case for the past three years.
I'm still very angry with my Ph.D. program, which kicked me out but wouldn't let me back in when I found out I had ADD. I know lots of people think ADD is bullshit, but come on....we all know that you don't have to be brilliant to get a Ph.D. You do have to be organized and focused, however. And I had a diagnosis from a honest-to-goodness MD. Too late now; I'm 46.
I have lots of anger, but no real hate. Well, except for politicians.
Oh, sending you so much friendship and solidarity. I was kicked out of my Ph.D. program in PSYCHOLOGY for the crime of becoming clinically depressed. Can you even? Unlike you, I've got some real hate going. You're better adjusted than me. I endured tons of disparaging comments about the "silly little emotional problem" I had.
Not to slag on anyone here, but WHY were you folks dropped? Were you not able to get the work in? Missed too many classes? What rational did these programs give for giving you the boot?
My original advisor tried to kick me out, but I was saved by another prof who became my new advisor. The 1st one was just a prick and he didn't think I was "serious" (I do have a touch of the class clown.) and he was known to play favorites. He tried to humiliate me in front of a bigwig campus visitor once because I was carrying a SciFi novel when I ran into them... Gah, I have tons of stories about this loser, but that was 30 years ago. Still makes me mad though.
I remember what did it. Several of us went to Chicago for a conference and one afternoon I played hooky to go see an exhibit of Monet's work at the art museum. He was FURIOUS. I did see lots of other sessions, and there was not anything special happening at the conference when I was at the art show. To this day I still think I made the right choice. I still remember being moved by the art I saw, much of it in the US for the only time, but I doubt my fellow grad students remember the panels they attended.
@Neala: That's pretty damn lame. Not sure why they wouldn't understand that. We get asked to "work with" students all the time, so I'm not sure why grad programs can't do the same. Well, I have seen them do so for students with "real" illnesses. I was treated for depression for a long time (15 years), but I learned my problems were really anxiety and ADD. I think the department saw these as character flaws rather than medical issues.
@The Gog: I was dropped from the program for "not making progress" on my degree. And I wasn't. I was a bad doc student. It's my fault. A year later, I came back and said, "Wait! I can explain!" I petitioned, but the DGS said no.
My fault. But I was angry because I was trying to figure this out as I went. Dying for another crack at it, but I am too old and too in debt.
LOL My story above about my grad program... they actually GAVE me a mental illness (or three). I had never had a panic attack before enrolling with them; after 3 months, I had them weekly, and in my second semester, they were daily! I eventually manifested full-on clinical depression after they ejected me from the PhD program with just the MA. I guess that was supposed to be the consolation prize.
I know academics like to talk about grad school as Boot Camp or somesuch, but real abuse that leads to illness DOES happen. All the time. Several of us from that same program had almost the same experience, and we were in different years and with different sub-interests, courses, etc. The only real constant was the program and how it was (mis-)run.
After numerous years, teaching thousands of students, there's probably 3 undergraduate students I have hated passionately. Not because they were entitled, whiny, complained, etc., because I deal with that all the time, but because they took such behaviour to new heights and inflicted it upon me over prolonged periods of time, sometimes when I had the misfortune of having them in different courses over multiple years; the manner in which they spoke to me had me convinced that their own parents must have been doormats (i.e. they were to be walked all over). But, thankfully, as happens with these undergrad students, when they graduate I never see or hear from them again, and the hate fades into a rarely-recalled unpleasant memory.
Not sure exactly who is screwing students out of an education in your mind, except maybe those trying to profit off higher ed, but...
I honestly have never expended enough energy on a student to hate any one of them. Dislike during the semester? Sure. Once the semester is over? Out of sight, out of mind.
Whom do I have right now? Those individuals who supposedly believe in individual responsibility but who blame others--exactly the wrong others--for all of their problems, and who are about to help elect someone who will most likely (literally) destroy this country and maybe the world. I refuse to see them as victims or dupes when all they can do is spew hate and spite.
People who screw students out of an education in order to further their careers.
I'm feeling something here. Let's extend this to include anybody who exploits an imbalance in power to advance themselves whilst setting the less powerful even further back. Yeah, I hate that. And if all I know about the perpetrator is they did that one thing, I think I could even find it in me to hate the person.
Hate? No-one, but, sticking to academia, if my original grad advisor were drowning I'd really, really have to think about tossing him a life-saver. I probably would. Probably.
OTOH, if my second advisor needed a new kidney I'll seriously consider giving him one of mine!
As for students, there are a small handful (maybe 2 or 3) that I'd have to think for awhile before tossing them a lifesaver too. I can think of one where I'd toss him a cement block though. And I suspect 99% of the people who deal with him on a regular basic would thank me.
No-one, because it seems I can't. Clearly it's a flaw in my character.
ReplyDeleteApparently, I see in everybody I interact with at least some qualities worthy of my respect if not affection. Perhaps I'm just lucky.
I believe you might not understand the question. Or the world.
DeletePerhaps I don't. But I know me.
DeleteNo one. Peace, love, hippies, dope, man.
ReplyDeleteOh, all right: how about petulant undergraduates who act like children who absolutely insist I drop everything that instant and attend to their every, every desire no matter what they see me fully occupied with, even though they'll live if they aren't gratified that very second?
Bama Fans and LSU Fans who have no true connections to the universities. So not alumni but sports fans. Well, fans when the teams are winning.... Why? Because they MAKE me hate them--and I want to be like OPH.
ReplyDeleteSuch individuals seem to have much in common with the jerks who get violent at political rallies. Yes, they can be disappointing, but there will probably never be a shortage of human behaviors that disappoint. And for me at least, before people exhibiting such behaviors could make me hate them, I'd have to care enough about how that behavior affects me to form an opinion. But I don't, so I "nothing" them.
DeletePersonally: I was once befriended by a man who I now believe is a sociopath. It has taken me years to figure out the ways he manipulated me. He caused a lot of psychic damage, which has only recently led me to realize I hate him for it. Like literally, passionately, grateful I will never see him again because I don;t know what I would do level hate.
ReplyDeleteProfessionally: The program and school from which I received my MA. The program is now defunct, the professors were opportunistic and routinely misled students as to professional prospects, and the instruction was sub-par (when compared to the schools I attended after leaving). The university allowed this to happen (despite a decade of warning signs), and found all sorts of creative ways to steal money from the students via fees, etc. Biggest waste of time and money. The Master's degree is now worthless. Hate them for it. If the place burned down or got audited by the IRS, I would smile with satisfaction.
- Anon y Mouse
This seems to be another area in which OPH and I are on the same wavelength: though I can think of one potential candidate (in my personal/family life), I really can't/don't hate anyone. This may be an occupational hazard of being an academic (or at least one kind of academic), or perhaps a personality trait that leads to being an academic: I tend to see most people, and most situations, as complex, capable of being seen from varying perspectives.
ReplyDeleteNone of the above rules out my hating more abstract things, including illness, both mental (to which I'd attribute much of bad human behavior) and physical (though I also recognize that as an inevitable part of life). Even there, I'm not sure that "hate" is quite the right word, since it suggests a degree of vehemence I don't feel (at least not at present; if I were more in the middle of a crisis caused by one of those things, I suspect I might feel that vehemence).
I do, however, feel perfectly justified in doing everything I can to stay out of the sphere of influence/power of people such as anon y mouse describes above, but I suspect that's more easily done if one doesn't actively hate them, which allows them a certain amount of brain space.
And, though I'm comfortable with the level of equanimity I'm feeling right now, I do hope that I would actively oppose evil or injustice which I had any hope of preventing, whether or not I felt hate for it, or the people perpetrating it. There's such a thing as too much equanimity.
Please, don't attribute "much of bad human behavior" to mental illness. Stigma is oppressive and everywhere, and fighting it is exhausting. Humans are perfectly capable of behaving badly on both small and large levels without mental illness playing a role.
DeleteI'm not saying that mental illness doesn't cause bad behavior. I'm currently too ill and too guilty of such to deny that. But perfectly healthy people bear the brunt of bad/nasty/awful behavior. Yet we quickly attribute this behavior to those with mental illnesses. We have enough to contend with.
"I'm comfortable with the level of equanimity I'm feeling right now"
Delete@CC: I read your comment while thinking of Bubba's avatar, and saw the word as "equine-amity".
If there is no such word, maybe there should be.
I don't hate anyone I know personally. But I despise thieving prosperity-gospel televangelists. One of the joys of finding there is a god would be knowing what's awaiting those sucking parasites. I'll leave aside terrorists as obvious.
ReplyDeleteBut some of them wear marvelous (and marvelously expensive) clothing! Surely such sartorial splendor is saintly?
DeleteWell, I don't hate them, but I feel emasculated (sorry for the gender-specific wordl I'm talking about power here) by the university for whom I adjunct. My ten grand a year doesn't stretch as far as you'd think it would. However, I did get to share an office last semester with only one other person--not ten others, which had been the case for the past three years.
ReplyDeleteI'm still very angry with my Ph.D. program, which kicked me out but wouldn't let me back in when I found out I had ADD. I know lots of people think ADD is bullshit, but come on....we all know that you don't have to be brilliant to get a Ph.D. You do have to be organized and focused, however. And I had a diagnosis from a honest-to-goodness MD. Too late now; I'm 46.
I have lots of anger, but no real hate. Well, except for politicians.
Oh, sending you so much friendship and solidarity. I was kicked out of my Ph.D. program in PSYCHOLOGY for the crime of becoming clinically depressed. Can you even? Unlike you, I've got some real hate going. You're better adjusted than me. I endured tons of disparaging comments about the "silly little emotional problem" I had.
DeleteNot to slag on anyone here, but WHY were you folks dropped? Were you not able to get the work in? Missed too many classes? What rational did these programs give for giving you the boot?
DeleteEdit: rationale....
DeleteMy original advisor tried to kick me out, but I was saved by another prof who became my new advisor. The 1st one was just a prick and he didn't think I was "serious" (I do have a touch of the class clown.) and he was known to play favorites. He tried to humiliate me in front of a bigwig campus visitor once because I was carrying a SciFi novel when I ran into them... Gah, I have tons of stories about this loser, but that was 30 years ago. Still makes me mad though.
DeleteI remember what did it. Several of us went to Chicago for a conference and one afternoon I played hooky to go see an exhibit of Monet's work at the art museum. He was FURIOUS. I did see lots of other sessions, and there was not anything special happening at the conference when I was at the art show. To this day I still think I made the right choice. I still remember being moved by the art I saw, much of it in the US for the only time, but I doubt my fellow grad students remember the panels they attended.
Delete@Neala: That's pretty damn lame. Not sure why they wouldn't understand that. We get asked to "work with" students all the time, so I'm not sure why grad programs can't do the same. Well, I have seen them do so for students with "real" illnesses. I was treated for depression for a long time (15 years), but I learned my problems were really anxiety and ADD. I think the department saw these as character flaws rather than medical issues.
Delete@The Gog: I was dropped from the program for "not making progress" on my degree. And I wasn't. I was a bad doc student. It's my fault. A year later, I came back and said, "Wait! I can explain!" I petitioned, but the DGS said no.
DeleteMy fault. But I was angry because I was trying to figure this out as I went. Dying for another crack at it, but I am too old and too in debt.
LOL My story above about my grad program... they actually GAVE me a mental illness (or three). I had never had a panic attack before enrolling with them; after 3 months, I had them weekly, and in my second semester, they were daily! I eventually manifested full-on clinical depression after they ejected me from the PhD program with just the MA. I guess that was supposed to be the consolation prize.
DeleteI know academics like to talk about grad school as Boot Camp or somesuch, but real abuse that leads to illness DOES happen. All the time. Several of us from that same program had almost the same experience, and we were in different years and with different sub-interests, courses, etc. The only real constant was the program and how it was (mis-)run.
-Anon y mouse
Flashbacks to posts wherein instead of hate, there is "nothing":
ReplyDeleteCrybaby Sally.
Have you ever really, really really ever hated... a student?
.
After numerous years, teaching thousands of students, there's probably 3 undergraduate students I have hated passionately. Not because they were entitled, whiny, complained, etc., because I deal with that all the time, but because they took such behaviour to new heights and inflicted it upon me over prolonged periods of time, sometimes when I had the misfortune of having them in different courses over multiple years; the manner in which they spoke to me had me convinced that their own parents must have been doormats (i.e. they were to be walked all over). But, thankfully, as happens with these undergrad students, when they graduate I never see or hear from them again, and the hate fades into a rarely-recalled unpleasant memory.
ReplyDeleteI'm less nice than many of you. Whom (and this applies to both admin & teachers) do I hate with a passion?
ReplyDeletePeople who screw students out of an education in order to further their careers.
Whether they know it or not, it's an awful thing they do.
Not sure exactly who is screwing students out of an education in your mind, except maybe those trying to profit off higher ed, but...
ReplyDeleteI honestly have never expended enough energy on a student to hate any one of them. Dislike during the semester? Sure. Once the semester is over? Out of sight, out of mind.
Whom do I have right now? Those individuals who supposedly believe in individual responsibility but who blame others--exactly the wrong others--for all of their problems, and who are about to help elect someone who will most likely (literally) destroy this country and maybe the world. I refuse to see them as victims or dupes when all they can do is spew hate and spite.
Damn--I really need to do a better job of copy-editing! I obviously meant, "whom do I HATE right now". Errr, we need an edit function!
DeletePeople who screw students out of an education in order to further their careers.
ReplyDeleteI'm feeling something here. Let's extend this to include anybody who exploits an imbalance in power to advance themselves whilst setting the less powerful even further back. Yeah, I hate that. And if all I know about the perpetrator is they did that one thing, I think I could even find it in me to hate the person.
Hate? No-one, but, sticking to academia, if my original grad advisor were drowning I'd really, really have to think about tossing him a life-saver. I probably would. Probably.
ReplyDeleteOTOH, if my second advisor needed a new kidney I'll seriously consider giving him one of mine!
As for students, there are a small handful (maybe 2 or 3) that I'd have to think for awhile before tossing them a lifesaver too. I can think of one where I'd toss him a cement block though. And I suspect 99% of the people who deal with him on a regular basic would thank me.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete