In the high school where I teach, it is absolute blasphemy to tell a student that college may not be for them. We are supposed to push higher education at all times, for everyone. But what about the kid who can barely read or write and is only graduating because he is being pushed through? Should we not try to teach this kid a skill instead? Maybe he's good with his hands, and would make a great electrician, and make more money than most of the teachers with advanced degrees who teach him. And what about the girl who tells me on a daily basis that she despises reading and writing (and can't do much of either) but plans on going to college to be a lawyer? Would it not be wise for me to inform her that she'd be wasting her money and she should also consider other roads?
Oh but what about the young lady who plays nail salon in the back of the classroom, and refuses to do any work? Could I not suggest that she get a cosmetology license and maybe learn how to run a salon as opposed to wasting her time and money in college?
The world needs hair stylists, heating and air conditioning repair, cooks etc.
Maybe instead of wasting time and money in college, and causing even lower self esteem, we should push kids to learn a skill?
This is so tricky...
ReplyDeleteYes college is not for everyone, and some that will benefit from it at some point are not ready at 18.
BUT.. when does a student start getting pushed toward a trade? When they are 17? 14? 10? The earlier they start, the better prepared for that trade they will be at 18, but also the more likely it is that a teacher or parent or counselor or whoever will push them away from academics because "those sorts of people" don't do well in college. "Those sorts" being completely based on stereotype.
I know someone who was the second sibling of a pair of sisters. The older sister had aspbergers syndrom and the entire small town high school faculty decided that they would do the second sister a favor. They tried to push her into trade classes and actively tried to oppose allowing her into advanced placement classes.
DeleteShe currently has five post graduate degrees including two doctorates one in a hard science and one in a humanities field and teaches at a world class university.
Not everything is what it seems. Even for teachers.
I think the distinction to aim for here lies in not telling individual students "you are not cut out for college", but instead telling all students "going straight to college out of high school is only one path through life, and certainly not the only one that works". (I'd love to declare a moratorium on the idea that 'college is the ticket to success'.)
DeleteWould the administration reprimand you for suggesting to a student that s/he not go to college?
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with the premise of this post. I teach at a public U, and many of the kids I see would clearly be better served by a technical post-secondary education. (Also, I spent the whole day today trying to solve a plumbing problem and couldn't do it, so I'll have to pay a small fortune to a plumber next week.)
ReplyDeleteI am also very familiar with the German system, where first of all there is tracking already in secondary school (academic and non-academic tracks). This is based on a teacher's recommendation (which most parents follow), and is reversible based on demonstrated ability. And second, many of the kids who go to "Gymnasium" (the academic track) opt to attend technical colleges, or a variety of company-sponsored work-as-you-study programs, with internships and guaranteed employment at the end.
It works in Germany, since there is no stigma attached to non-academic choices; these degrees are highly employable and lead to comfortable middle-class incomes (or better). In the US, tracking is anathema, and technical colleges looked down on. The result is that we have millions of kids going to institutions calling themselves universities, but which for most students are in effect technical schools (including my own.) It's an American thing: equality of nominal opportunity, even if in practice this "equality" is an illusion.
This is bound up with the myth of a "liberal education" as the desirable default for most people, and the resulting proliferation of distribution requirements and shallowness of the majors (at Bumfuck State, upper-division major credits are around 25% of the total credits needed to graduate.)
Maybe somebody could start a network of "prestigious, highly selective" (people like that here) technical universities, with doctoral faculty and leading to Bachelor's degrees in highly employable fields, without non-major courses (other than writing). Major in "mathematical software design", "Physics of information technology", and so on. Maybe if their graduates started getting all the good jobs, people would take them seriously.
Notice also that Germany still has a viable manufacturing sector.
DeleteI'm pretty sure electricians need to be able to read too. Otherwise, agreed.
ReplyDeleteIndeed. In fact, a friend's husband (a very smart man such severe dyslexia that he only learned to read in high school) did not become an electrician in part because the written exam presented a significant barrier. He was also in a rural school system, before the ADA was in the kind of force it is today. Members of the next generation who are equally dyslexic have fared better (and he has done well; he just didn't become an electrician).
DeleteOur electrician, who came from an academic family and so naturally expected to go to university, tried to get a philosophy degree in about 8 different institutions, and never lasted more than a year in any. She eventually realised she had ADD and apprenticed as an electrician, at which she's done wonderfully. She says that when you're an electrician every day is a different problem, which suits her fine; she can work with her hands, which helps her focus; and reading Kant was wonderful training for understanding the Code.
DeleteSometimes I think it should be mandatory for all kids to take a year off after graduating from high school. Most need a little more maturing before hitting college. All of them need to work at a minimum wage, service industry job that truly sucks, or in a volunteer capacity helping those who have no options, in order to decide whether or not further education is necessary.
ReplyDeleteIt is essential that kids have an idea about the level of work that will be required of them. Rather than telling that student she isn't cut out for law school, drop a textbook from a first year law class in front of her and show her what's in store. Job shadows where kids can see the daily reality of a career are also helpful.
Bottom line is, you cannot protect them from wasting time and money and further erosion of self esteem. But you can help them realize that it's always good to have a backup plan or two on reserve.
In a word, no. The world does, indeed, need people with skills of various kinds (and if what I heard on NPR last week is accurate, there may actually be a shortage of people in the construction trades in the next few years, as both the economy and retirements pick up, and the immigration situation remains unresolved). I'm not so sure about steering anyone into cosmetology, since it pays so badly, and involves some risks (to both the salon worker and any customer in the hands of a careless salon worker), but that may just be my bias against salons talking (honestly, I'd almost rather go to the dentist). Besides, running any business takes more self-discipline than it sounds like that young lady has (and also literacy and numeracy). But she's young; maybe she'll grow up. I'd suggest that she be put to work changing diapers or bedpans for a while, but that would be unfair to the babies or patients. Maybe she can just scrub bathroom floors for a while.
ReplyDeleteI think the best one can say is that "college isn't for you, right now". Yes, it may never be and, iMHO, that is true for many, and it is NOT an insult.
ReplyDeleteBut good luck getting that across.
After reading a bunch of my students' self-introductions, I'm also struck by the number of majors now offered at my university that aren't exactly traditional academic fields: e.g.tourism, sports management, events management, recreation/parks management. While these are perfectly respectable professions (though I'm not sure the supply/demand equation for sports managers is quite in balance), they don't strike me as college majors, at least not ones that fit easily into the traditional mission of a university (or into my writing in the disciplines course, in which students are supposed to locate and study the writing of scholars in their fields). I wonder if, perhaps, they belong in some other sort of school than my R2-trying-to-become-an R1. But then what courses would the athletes who seem to flock to these majors take? I think we might have a tail-wagging-the-dog symptom here (and perhaps a blueprint for a new sort of institution: the farm team/sports studies school).
ReplyDeleteAt my R1 the textiles major is for some reason in the college of natural sciences so all textiles majors have to pass first semester chemistry and biology for majors. It's ridiculous.
DeleteWe seem to have the opposite situation: a bunch of majors labeled "management" (sports management, events management) that are not headquartered in the business school, I suspect because the B-school requires courses that involve math and spreadsheets and such stuff (and has pretty high expectations for grammatical correctness, too). I never thought I'd be extolling the high standards of the B-school, but there you go.
DeleteI think it would be lov-er-ly to require all 18-year-old snowflakes to spend at least a year doing a real job in the real world before entering college. The trouble with this idea is: try convincing their doting helicopter parents of that!
ReplyDeleteI wish I could agree that not everyone has to go to college. Not everyone wants to go, and not everyone can do the work. The trouble is that, as Warren Buffett observes, the technological vastness of the future isn't creating a lot of good-paying jobs for people with IQs of 90. The real problem here is that college isn't such a great place for people with IQs of 90, either.
DeleteWhen I graduated High School my Dad got me a summer job in a local factory on the assembly line. He was one of the plant engineers. What an experience, but looking back I realize that my God I was immature. But two summers spent doing that kind of work had several effects on me.
ReplyDeleteIt helped me to start growing up.
It made me appreciate how hard physical labor could be.
It also made me very pro-Union and pro-worker, which is something I think my anti-Union conservative father never anticipated. I still have my union card tucked away somewhere.
And OK, I got a much better album collection out of it, because I made a good wage and hung out at a good used record store on my days off. Hey, not every effect has to be serious!
Don't kid yourself. There's nothing more serious than a good album collection.
DeleteI agree with everyone who thinks students should work a job (however low-paying) or volunteer at something that's physically or mentally demanding for at least a year before attending college. In fact, it's the one and only reason I would ever support a draft or some other requirement for military service. The reason I don't is that, well, the military isn't for everybody. Plus I don't want to support the military-industrial-financial complex. It's bad enough that I support the educational-financial complex.
ReplyDeleteWhat about a draft for "public service"? It wouldn't hurt 'em to go off and repair trails in national parks, or tutor at-risk kids, or for that matter dig ditches.
DeleteI tell my perfectly-functional, perfectly college-qualified students to learn skills as well. They should be able to caulk a window, mend clothing, cook nutritious food.... and perhaps they should be able to enjoy playing an instrument, knitting a sweater, building a table!
ReplyDeleteIt's amazing the puzzled and then thoughtful looks I get when I tell students this....
I also think we have to be more like the Germans (and other Europeans, for that matter) in not stigmatizing trades or technical work. I always found it ironic that in France, where I lived for a time, the work of even a waiter or waitress is more respected than it is in the US, which has the so-called Protestant Work Ethic.
ReplyDeleteShouldn't separate associate degrees in technology from 4 year institutions, whether it's in the physical separation of campuses or in transferability of credits. I won't say that these tech degrees are on the same level as upper division level Aristotle or Kant, but they are definitely for the lower division classes.
ReplyDeleteThere, problem solved. This also might solve the problem of there being only 2 or 3 B.S. degrees in diesel maintenance in the entire country.