"Student writing exhibits some of the same qualities of pastiche that drive other creative endeavors today."
Uh, really? Plagiarists aren't interested in writing a "creative pastiche," you idiot. They're lazy fucks that don't want to do their own work. Don't enable them by calling them "creative." It will make other professors want to kick you to death.
Fortunately, a lot of the commenters on the article understand perfectly well what the article's author fails to grasp: Students don't plagiarize because they don't know it's wrong. They plagiarize because they're too lazy to do the work.
Or stubborn, Jess. They don't want to accept that there are rules and those rules have to be followed or else bad things happen (like failure, getting fired, bad rep et al.)
But the facile "I didn't know it was wrong!" is the first and easiest defense when caught.
Good teachers can usually suss out if/when that's true; for instance, they usually make sure the students know what not to do do beforehand, which means, in the end, Snowy is just proving incompetent at the task -- just like any other F.
But the mediocre teachers just frown, pat Snowy on the back, and then give him another 15 chances. And yes, I do think allowing re-writes (of graded, major assignments) in most cases is a sign of mediocre pedagogy.
I tended to teach citation and referencing (with examples) on Day 1, have the class do examples guided by my Socratic badgering on Day 2, and then give an in-class writing assignment on Day 3 with me in the classroom to offer help on a small-stakes, 10-point paragraph. All before the 1st major writing assignment was due.
Guess how many "forgot" that week-long lesson? (Hint: the answer is neither none nor the whole class.)
I make clear--very clear--that "I didn't know it was plagiarism" is no excuse, and that if I catch them, they're going down. Then we spend at least a class period and a half discussing plagiarism. Then, when someone does it, my ripping him a new one comes as no surprise.
I have my students write one paper each semester, and I do handstands and pirouettes trying to teach how to avoid plagiarism. Yet, so many of them just do it anyway. When I flunk them or pass back the paper with "Rewrite: see me!" they come in sheepish and say, "I thought I could use Wikipedia." And of course, "That's how we did it in high school."
Wait, since when does telling them not to use Wikipedia mean they won't use it anyway? Where the hell do y'all teach, where students listen to your admonitions and incessant reminders and cajoling and threats? Cuz I just graded a case-study where the douche...er...student actually found the answer key online, signed up *as an instructor* to get access to the key, then cut-and-pasted from the key and turned it in as his own work. And when I called him on it and told him it was flagrant plagiarism, he actually said, "You said we couldn't use Wikipedia or a .com source. You didn't say I couldn't look up the answers. Besides, everything in that key is common knowledge." WTH?? If you had to look it up, it ain't common knowledge, schmuck! Welcome to the world of FAIL!
(Sorry - I seriously JUST heard this excuse this morning...)
Future lawyers, all of them. If you give specifics on an assignment, they will find every loophole possible. If you keep it broad, they will complain that they didn't understand.
Unfortunately, the students and their stupidity/laziness are not the only problem. Faculty members must be willing to take a united stand against all academic dishonesty. What does a student think when I fail them for the course when they cheat but The Idiot "takes off for that"? Seriously, that fucktard doesn't think it's *really* plagiarism when students fail to cite sources -- and he "takes off" points for plagiarism. Lesson: cheating is OK in The Idiot's class -- in fact, you could still get an A or B!
I actually heard a student say that he didn't think that what he was taught in my academic integrity workshop applied to The Idiot's classes! In a way, I guess he's right.
Beth, sweetie, I said they won't listen, but we have to tell them to avoid Wikipedia anyway.
I never said they WOULD listen. But we have to tell them. Just like, in a way, you have to tell students NOT to cheat.
See, they like claiming ignorance of basic stuff like "DON'T cheat." ("But you never said we couldn't!")
Don't steal definitions from the textbook without citing them ("You never said we couldn't!")
Don't be absent for half the semester. ("You never said we couldn't!")
There's this emerging trend that students seem to use the "You never told us not to!" defense, and their complaints are seen as valid. (see Prissy above for an example.)
"Student writing exhibits some of the same qualities of pastiche that drive other creative endeavors today."
ReplyDeleteUh, really? Plagiarists aren't interested in writing a "creative pastiche," you idiot. They're lazy fucks that don't want to do their own work. Don't enable them by calling them "creative." It will make other professors want to kick you to death.
Spelling is also still a problem.
ReplyDeleteIs anyone besides me appreciating the irony of a New York Times piece on Plagiarism?
ReplyDeleteI hate having to click a link and go elsewhere.
ReplyDeleteFortunately, a lot of the commenters on the article understand perfectly well what the article's author fails to grasp: Students don't plagiarize because they don't know it's wrong. They plagiarize because they're too lazy to do the work.
ReplyDeleteOr stubborn, Jess. They don't want to accept that there are rules and those rules have to be followed or else bad things happen (like failure, getting fired, bad rep et al.)
ReplyDeleteBut the facile "I didn't know it was wrong!" is the first and easiest defense when caught.
Good teachers can usually suss out if/when that's true; for instance, they usually make sure the students know what not to do do beforehand, which means, in the end, Snowy is just proving incompetent at the task -- just like any other F.
But the mediocre teachers just frown, pat Snowy on the back, and then give him another 15 chances. And yes, I do think allowing re-writes (of graded, major assignments) in most cases is a sign of mediocre pedagogy.
I tended to teach citation and referencing (with examples) on Day 1, have the class do examples guided by my Socratic badgering on Day 2, and then give an in-class writing assignment on Day 3 with me in the classroom to offer help on a small-stakes, 10-point paragraph. All before the 1st major writing assignment was due.
Guess how many "forgot" that week-long lesson? (Hint: the answer is neither none nor the whole class.)
I make clear--very clear--that "I didn't know it was plagiarism" is no excuse, and that if I catch them, they're going down. Then we spend at least a class period and a half discussing plagiarism. Then, when someone does it, my ripping him a new one comes as no surprise.
ReplyDeleteI have my students write one paper each semester, and I do handstands and pirouettes trying to teach how to avoid plagiarism. Yet, so many of them just do it anyway. When I flunk them or pass back the paper with "Rewrite: see me!" they come in sheepish and say, "I thought I could use Wikipedia." And of course, "That's how we did it in high school."
ReplyDeleteAre they all lying?
Salty, have you specifically told them not to use wikipedia?
ReplyDeleteStart doing it because they all think it's ok, even when you tell them not to use it.
Wait, since when does telling them not to use Wikipedia mean they won't use it anyway? Where the hell do y'all teach, where students listen to your admonitions and incessant reminders and cajoling and threats? Cuz I just graded a case-study where the douche...er...student actually found the answer key online, signed up *as an instructor* to get access to the key, then cut-and-pasted from the key and turned it in as his own work. And when I called him on it and told him it was flagrant plagiarism, he actually said, "You said we couldn't use Wikipedia or a .com source. You didn't say I couldn't look up the answers. Besides, everything in that key is common knowledge." WTH?? If you had to look it up, it ain't common knowledge, schmuck! Welcome to the world of FAIL!
ReplyDelete(Sorry - I seriously JUST heard this excuse this morning...)
Future lawyers, all of them. If you give specifics on an assignment, they will find every loophole possible. If you keep it broad, they will complain that they didn't understand.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, the students and their stupidity/laziness are not the only problem. Faculty members must be willing to take a united stand against all academic dishonesty. What does a student think when I fail them for the course when they cheat but The Idiot "takes off for that"? Seriously, that fucktard doesn't think it's *really* plagiarism when students fail to cite sources -- and he "takes off" points for plagiarism. Lesson: cheating is OK in The Idiot's class -- in fact, you could still get an A or B!
I actually heard a student say that he didn't think that what he was taught in my academic integrity workshop applied to The Idiot's classes! In a way, I guess he's right.
Beth, sweetie, I said they won't listen, but we have to tell them to avoid Wikipedia anyway.
ReplyDeleteI never said they WOULD listen. But we have to tell them. Just like, in a way, you have to tell students NOT to cheat.
See, they like claiming ignorance of basic stuff like "DON'T cheat." ("But you never said we couldn't!")
Don't steal definitions from the textbook without citing them ("You never said we couldn't!")
Don't be absent for half the semester. ("You never said we couldn't!")
There's this emerging trend that students seem to use the "You never told us not to!" defense, and their complaints are seen as valid. (see Prissy above for an example.)