With tomorrow's grand day looming
, I am suddenly terrified of the past couple of years of gift giving I've done as a grad student at this mammoth - but non-descript - state school in the South.I often give little tea baskets
, photo collections
, and other such things (always a nice card
!) to my favorite proffies. But after the recent posting about the inappropriateness of even a silly gift card, I'm paralyzed.Have I been doing something wrong? I give VD cards to proffies both male and female, sometimes a gift, sometime something homemade or baked.
I'm not flirting with anyone! It's just the kind of holiday I've always celebrated. I've given out VD cards to my teachers since I was 4 years old.
Am I supposed to have stopped by now?
I don't like the new busy :hearts: background. It's too dark and crowded.
ReplyDeleteAnd, Lauren, grow up.
Middle School would have been a good time to quit giving Valentines to teachers. Good lord.
ReplyDeleteOh, those sort of VD cards. That's different. Yes, you were supposed to have stopped by now.
ReplyDeleteI guess because Valentine's Day is associated with romantic love, I'd feel a little puzzled and wary of a Valentine's Day gift from a grad student, and I might secretly wonder if the Martha Stewart act made her a less serious student, which is not fair, I know. But I will say this: all those goodies and notes of appreciation are GREAT for staff. Lavish your talents on them, because they are a) generally less snobby, and b) not evaluating you professionally. They will appreciate feeling appreciated, and you will move up on their priority list.
ReplyDeleteThat's my compromise position, because you're obviously a well-intentioned and caring person with a knack for the holidays.
WOAH! My first pass at the heading, coupled with yesterday's "who's bangin' who" piece had me thinking like Froderick. But now that that's put to rest, I'm with Frog/Toad. It's sweet that you want to recognize the holiday, but best not do so with those who are in a position of having to evaluate your work. By all means though, whatever outpouring you were saving for proffies, heap it on the staff. They deserve it, and they will appreciate it.
ReplyDeleteI second Frog and Toad on this one. Treat your department's assistants and secretaries and also staff you deal with frequently in other departments, and keep in mind that especially male recipients might be weirded out by this kind of attention. In that case, give the tea basket/muffin tray to the whole office. While I certainly don't expect VD cards (or gifts) from students tomorrow, reading this post alerted me that someone might do something, and I hope they won't. As instructors/proffies, we just never know if the gesture is sincere or an attempt at kissing up and ensuring future leniency. It's a bit different if a whole class pitches in to buy, say, a balloon, a card, and a tiny box of candy (even though I ended up giving away the candy on at least one occasion, just to be safe).
ReplyDeleteFrog&Toad and ThinWoman are correct about lavishing your love on the staff or make the gift to the whole department. We have a central table where free books, coupons, and snacks silently appear and are consumed by all.
ReplyDeleteThe answer depends on how people in the department perceive you. If you've been there for a few years, and you're well-known as the woman who loves holidays, then you've established a pattern. Giving a card/baked good wouldn't be entirely out of line. That being said, you're probably better off ratcheting your gift-giving ways back and focus your generosity on the staff.
ReplyDeleteUh, yeah, giving Valentine's gifts to individual faculty members is weird (and I *love* Valentine's Day). Plentiful opportunities for misunderstandings and general discomfort.
ReplyDeleteFood gifts to the entire Department would be fine, I'm sure, and much appreciated.
Frog and Toad mentioned a very important point for Lauren to keep in mind: this sort of gift-giving behavior makes you look naive, and however unfair it may be, your profs will take you less seriously as a student because of it. (Photo collections!? Of whom are you taking photos? Why!?).
ReplyDeleteIf one of my grad students gave me this type of gift my reaction, when I was done cringing, would be to wonder why they have the free time and spare income for such silliness.
Well, a lot depends on context. Do you have a longstanding relationship with the prof, and do you talk to that prof outside of class? Are you currently NOT in any of that professor's classes? Truthfully, it's not gifts from students overall that make me uncomfortable. It's gifts from students currently enrolled in my classes. Of course, the larger the gift, the more awkward it might be.
ReplyDeleteI'll give you two different scenarios:
1) Current student I've never taught before this semester stops by with tea basket and generic VD card--this makes me uncomfortable. I would say (and have), "Oh, that's lovely...could you bring this back after the course is over? I don't want to take gifts from current students, but I appreciate the sentiment."
2) Former student, a veteran of several of my classes but not taking any presently, who has looked to me as a mentor, brings that same VD basket and card. Well, in that case I would have no problem taking the tea basket. A television, no. A tea basket, well that's sweet!
Don't give me stuff. Just don't. Every semester I tell my students that if they find me a daguerreotype of a particular historical figure engaging in a particular activity (no, not sexxxytimes) relevant to our discipline, they get an A.
ReplyDeleteNo one has found me the picture.
But if they did, that would be an acceptable gift b/c I solicited it.
Also, Lauren, I am amazed that you read this blog. Sometimes it makes me hate myself even more than it makes me dislike my students. If I were an undergrad, it would make me want to poke out my eyes. Are you a masochist? (Don't answer that, it crosses some kind of line.)
"If I were an undergrad, it would make me want to poke out my eyes. Are you a masochist? (Don't answer that, it crosses some kind of line.)"
ReplyDeleteFor my part, as a student, it doesn't depress me at all.
Somehow, I just find it interesting to see how things look from the "proffie's" point of view. Furthermore, some of the student behaviors that you all describe, such as facebooking in class, also irritate me (probably not as acutely).
Am I supposed to have stopped by now?
ReplyDeleteYes.
While I, too, appreciate the thought, and the spirit behind it, like almost everybody else above, I'd say that, yes, the end of high school was the time to stop, if not well before then. This might vary just a bit by institution (and surrounding culture), and, yes, staff are likely to be more receptive.
ReplyDeleteBesides the issues mentioned above, the other area of potential sensitivity is that many proffies, rightly or wrongly, see themselves as different from elementary/high school teachers in significant ways, and so don't appreciate actions that erase those distinctions (e.g. being called a "teacher," or "Mrs." when one has a doctorate). That strikes me as a somewhat chip-on-the-shoulder, protesting-too-much attitude (though I don't much like "Mrs.," but mostly because I'm unmarried and prefer "Ms." anyway), but it exists, and it won't help your relationship with a proffie if he/she reads the gesture that way.
Finally, you might ask yourself whether you can imagine a male student doing this, or anything else you consider doing; I think the answer re: valentines and goodies will probably be no (unless it were a male student acting in a stereotypically female way). While I'm the last person to suggest that women should adopt "male" personae in professional environments, there's still something to be said for toning down behaviors that are very traditionally feminine *while in that context* (I'm not suggesting that you change your overall approach to life, just calibrate which aspects of your personality you emphasize or deemphasize in various settings), so as to increase the likelihood that you will be seen as a professional yourself. I think refraining from celebration of holidays other than those that your institution traditionally marks might fall in that category. Once again, this will vary by institutional and departmental culture; I know of some nursing, education, and other overwhelmingly female departments where I probably wouldn't fit in very well because my behaviors don't conform closely enough to traditional norms for women.
Great Krypton! If I got a VD card or gift, I'd need to go see the Dept Head and/or Program Manager to make it clear that I wasn't harassing a student.
ReplyDeleteI'd also have a hard time if Dear Lois ever found out. Her mantra has always been: "You can look, but not touch."
Cassandra's captured something that's very important if rarely articulated, and worth stating again, I think. University instructors -- especially those whose status as 'professors' is incomplete or precarious (think adjuncts or grad-student TAs) don't generally like to be treated like 'schoolteachers'. Giftgiving (except in certain situations discussed in an earlier thread) comes perilously close to this.
ReplyDeleteYou want to thank your proffies for being good teachers, which is nice. But Valentine's Day generally takes on a romantic tone once you are an adult. Verbally thank them after each thing they do that you appreciate - whether it's an instructive lecture or some extra help during office hours. You really want to thank them? Drop a note to their immediate supervisor - chairperson, dean, or whoever - full of glowing praise about how great they are. Then, wait until the semester is over and your grades are in. Then write a heartfelt note of thanks - not an e-mail, handwritten note, maybe a thank-you card.
ReplyDeleteBelieve it or not, people like when their supervisors are told they are doing a great job. People like handwritten notes of thanks - some people even save such correspondence, and a few might even re-read such a note during times when they feel a bit discouraged. People also like chocolates, little teddy bears, and that sort of thing, but those tend to get eaten up, given to young nieces, or shoved in drawer somewhere. A note of praise to the supervisor lasts forever - that's a Valentine's Day gift that nearly everyone will appreciate, and does not cross the boundaries of, well, grown-up etiquette.
Giving a tea or muffin basket to the entire department, staff and faculty, will always go over well. Leave it in the office with a card. For bonus points make the card anonymous. People will likely figure out who did it but you will get extra points for not trying to get extra points. And it will be very gratefully appreciated!
ReplyDeleteTo individual profs? Even if you give one to all of them, and that's clearly known, I would still say, better to make it a common gift to the office.
In fact I think I'll bring in some cookies tomorrow. For everyone.
ReplyDeleteOh my god, STOP.
ReplyDeleteValentine's Day is awkward for everyone. If you are not F*cking some person, dont' give them somethign for V day. And if you're a smart person, don't celebrate V day. It's for idiots and the insecure.
If one of my colleagues gave me a cheap plastic toy for V day, I would seriously avoid sending any real work or students or promotions their way. I would secretly think of them as a grown-up Ralph Wiggum.
"I choo-choo-choose you" Gawd.
Am I the only one reading "VD" as venereal disease?
ReplyDelete@DrNathaniel - Nope. I think we all are. The double meaning makes it even funnier.
ReplyDeleteSecond the point about giving gifts to staff. (But why Valentine's Day? Maybe Labor Day makes better sense.)
ReplyDeleteCan't I even leave an Almond Roca in each of my colleague's mailboxes? Anonymously? I keep meaning to do that, though i've never actually got round to it. Someone did that when I was in grad school and I was charmed.
ReplyDeleteOh for goodness sake. It's not a big deal if a student bakes and distributes a few clearly non-Romantic holiday cards to faculty. While I have never received a Valentine's gift from a student, if it was clearly well-intentioned and non-Romantic, I would graciously say "thank you," eat the treat with my coffee and move-on from there. Y'all are acting like she suggested writing a love-poem to her professors or something.
ReplyDeleteWell part of it is -- is Lauren a grad student or an undergrad? From an undergrad, this would be sweet, if a bit naive (and I really would have to say I can't accept anything before grades are in). But overall, no big deal. From a grad student, it would be ... unprofessional. And that's really the key.
ReplyDeleteTo me baked goods or a tea basket would only make sense from one of the grad students I am directing, and as a thank you, disconnected from any gift-giving holiday, particularly a romantic one. I have had grad students who are great chefs, savvy shoppers, and lovely note-writers, and when their offerings are tied to a thank you for my professional work on their behalf, I appreciate it and don't think the less of them. But from a grad who merely took my course, with whom I may someday have a closer supervising relationship but don't at the time, it feels "off."
But Lauren, if you are a grad student and still reading -- don't crawl in a hole and die, and don't apologize. Just shift your attentions to the staff, and thank your profs. with notes on regular old days (or a winter holiday card is also acceptable).
I, like Shmitty, am an undergrad (I became a fan of RYS about a year and a half ago and followed its evolution into the new CM community as well) and at the end of each semester I give a written "Thank You" to the professors I've had that term, as well as a gift card or some other small gift of appreciation (such as a book realted to the professor's discipline) - or Christmas/holiday cards in fall term - and include the secretaries for the department of my major and the university's honor's program of which I am a candidate.
ReplyDeleteThere is never an expectation, on my part, that this will in any way effect my grade; and, without meaning to sound arrogant, I put in a great deal of hard work to earn the grades I get and would not need to "buy" my way into anything. To be honest, I don't think any of my professors would be swayed by such an attmept either, and I would be insulted to have a grade I did not earn (I'm one of the few students who really HATES the concept of a grade "curve").
Before I come off as sounding naive or immature, it needs to be made clear that I am a non-trad (hoefully not one of the dreaded types that some of you have encountered) who made a terrible mess of my academic career the first time I attempted to earn a BA degree.
I am genuinely thankful to have had the opportunity at another chance, especially when so many people never get one opportunity at a college education, and I take it very seriously.
I am also very grateful to the professors who do so much, only to have so many of my classmates act like such ingrateful asshats... even at my worst the first time around, my loooong background in Catholic school at least guaranteed my respect and courtesy toward anyone at the front of the classroom; regardless of gender, age, title, etc.
But, in reading the repsonses here, I am a little concerned. The professors I've had seem to know me, as I do make an effort to talk to them outside of the actual class time (e.g. coming in during office hours to ask related questions that interested me but that may have been tangental to a discussion; or asking about their work, interests, specialties, etc. in that "warm-up" time before class starts). Again, it's not something I do in an effort to suck up, I'm genuinely interested. Having given a great deal of thought to perhaps becoming a professor myself one day, I like to hear how others started their journey, how they see their profession, what makes them come back day after day to what must sometimes seem a Sisyphean task.
Several of you have pointed out that context is important and I'd like to know: given the bit of context on my own motivations, is this prohibition on gift-giving to be a blanket one? Or is it, for lack of a better term, more "ok" on some holidays than others?
I know several of you, including F&T have said some holidays are different; my question is more for those whose opinion seems to be that gift-giving is across the board immature, and insulting to the professor, and should stop in junior high.
ReplyDeleteI'm afraid you're going to run across some insane old prof who is going to use this as an excuse to harass you. There are still plenty of creeps in this profession. Also, I've never gotten a VD card from a student. I think that would be odd.
ReplyDeleteAlthough in general, cards, cookies, notes etc. are not a bad thing in my book.
I guess it depends on the prof. I'm just a staff member, but I manage a lot of student workers - grad assistants as well as undergrad student aides who answer the phones. Around Christmastime they all give me gifts - even the foreign students who don't celebrate Christmas at home. Frankly, I'm not crazy about it. They report to me, and I feel as if it's okay for the boss to buy gifts for employees, but employees should not feel obligated to buy gifts for the boss. (Of course, I realize that boss/employee relationship doesn't exist in the classroom.) I have gotten Starbucks gift cards, teddy bears, more chocolates than I could ever eat, a blouse, calendars, trinket boxes, picture frames... can't say I'm comfortable with the idea of cash-strapped students spending money to buy me gifts when I never give them a darn thing except for letters of recommendation.
ReplyDeleteThe one gift that I *am* okay with is home-cooked food given spontaneously rather than for a holiday. My graduate assistant brought me some Tandoori chicken that he made (not realizing I'm vegetarian) - not for a holiday, just cause he made a whole bunch of it - and I thought that was very thoughtful.
But most of all, I appreciate cards, letters, and even e-mails. A heartfelt message strikes a chord with me, sometimes I even get a little emotional. Last semester's grad assistant found a better job - or more aptly, I asked the CTO if he could find him a summer job that turned into a permanent position. I still feel wistful when I see him in the hallways, because he was the Best.Ever.GA. But I did that because he so deserves a good job, not because I was angling to get some free chicken or a picture frame or whatever.