I have two summer classes that started last week. One section has 14 boys and 8 girls. The other has 15 girls and 7 boys.The classes - the same class, same level, same college - couldn't be more different.
Even in three days the boy-class has been unruly, hard to manage, loud, smelly. I can't get anything done in that class. We get going late; people try to leave early. Nobody is interested in using some critical thinking; they just want answers. The girls in the class are mute, even when I call on them.
The girl-class is an absolute joy to go to. Lively conversations. I get listened to. They stay after, still asking questions. They are simply more ready to be in a college class.
Is that foolish? Am I imagining it?
Is there something I'm doing wrong? Do boys just suck
?- Bethany from Bellingham
I get this all the time in gender-imbalanced classes, and I have a hypothesis. Gendered socialization of boys and girls in a K-12 context is to blame.
ReplyDeleteGirls are culturally expected to be good students and engage in teacher-pleasing behavior. When they do, they are rewarded. When they do not, they are immediately chastised and punished by teachers and administrators.
Boys are culturally expected to be more independent about things and when they act up in class, the attitude--unless it's REALLY disruptive--is often "boys will be boys." In a K-12 context, they aren't REWARDED for this behavior, but on average, it's tolerated much more than comparable behavior would be among girls.
When we get the little darlings in college, they are out on their own for the first time, eager to impress their peers. The boys often do this by sustaining codes of masculinity they've learned over time, which can include being cool and/or detached and/or goofy.
In my experience, in mixed classes where there are more boys than girls, the girls are often more subdued than in other contexts. When they're not, they often try to act like one of the guys, a little goofy and jokey. It's really annoying.
Oh, and in mixed classes where there are more girls than boys, WATCH OUT if you assign group work. Boys will sometimes literally conspire to make themselves evenly divided among teams of girls because they have learned that on a team of, say, 3 girls and 1 boy, the girls will do all the work.
So, no, Bethany. You're not foolish or imagining it. And boys don't necessarily suck--but the way we socialize them does, and by the time we get them at 18-22, it's too late for us to do much to change these behaviors. The girls have been socialized into college readiness, while the boys have not, thanks in part to so many teachers laughing at their antics instead of disciplining them.
If only we could send them to the principal's office.
I find the following to be incredibly useful, especially for 1000-level courses. I tell them that whether they pass or fail, I get the same paycheck. Conversely, if they flunk out, they will NOT get paid the same as they would if they stay in, pass, and get that [insert major] degree they want. Then I invite anyone who would prefer to be doing something to leave. I remind them to pick up a Denny's application.
ReplyDeleteMaybe it's the way I say it, but it's worked well for me. Reminds them that we are not high school teachers and are not in fact beholden to coo over them and coddle them and make sure they pass at all costs. Reminds them that this is grown-up land and that they are on their f***ing own.
I wish that sending them to the principal's office helped...in my experience, the only thing it helps is the rest of the class during the time the student is in the office. The students I have sent to the office are just as badly behaved when they return from their sojourn.
ReplyDeleteIf a male student between the ages of 18-22 tries to make sure that he is the only male in a group with several young women also between the ages of 18-22, I suspect "letting them do most of the work" is the last thing on his mind. 8-)
ReplyDeleteI've seen dynamics like this, absolutely. Sometimes it's not even the gender balance in the class, so much as the gender balance near the front of the classroom.
ReplyDeleteAge balance matters, as well: older male students are often much more responsible than their younger counterparts.
I've not been above stapling Burger King applications to the rowdy boys' tests.
ReplyDeleteI lived this my first year teaching. My very first class had more women than men. It was a joy to teach. It almost seemed as if the women set the mark and the men who might otherwise have been inclined to be goofy rose to the occasion.
ReplyDeleteI taught the second half of the course on the same days at the same times the next semester. I'd had a few students who dropped out of college and a few more who couldn't take the course at that time, but about 70% of the original students followed me. That change of 30% was all male, and it was the class from hell. I got a couple of rich farmer's kids (brothers) who behaved like stereotypical frat boys. The class became majority male (14/20). The same guys who had been such great students in the previous semester fed off the frat boys and turned into terrors.
It got so bad that by the last four weeks of the semester, I had divided the class in half and was meeting with them 10 at a time while the other 10 had either a library or group meeting assignment. I didn't bring them back together again until the last week of class to do presentations and review for the final. It saved my sanity, but those were the absolute worse course evals I ever got--very angry with personal attacks that had nothing to do with teaching. All the women save one gave me good marks. The reverse was true for the men.
Where are the gendered imbalance in learning-preparedness naysayers in this thread? There's always at least one neo-EdD wank who tries to pretend that this dynamic is not happening, has never happened, and that there is not a history of literature to support its existence for decades.
ReplyDeleteI think it's great some of you can use the "go work in fast food" technique to get students to buckle down, but if you teach at a crappy school all that does is antagonize them. Cuz you, mr(s). professor dude(tte), are just a smug, ignorant, theory-spouting know-it-all. And how DARE you spoil their dreams with expectations of maturity and competence!
Or so they say about me in their evals. Cuz they never. ever. leave. (And this actually goes for the gals as well as the guys. The bad attitude is spreading thanks to rampant anti-intellectualism. But the imbalance is still clear and gendered.)
I very rarely have a female who acts out in my class. If she does, it'll be passive aggressive behavior (eye rolling, loud sighing, texting and giggling with friends). Boys... now boys are a different story. They flirt, postulate, make loud jokes, and perform, perform, perform for their peers... and nothing I do helps them to grow up, especially when they are in a group that encourages and admires their behavior.
ReplyDeleteThen I see them three years later in an upper-division course and suddenly, they are a different beast (most of them, at least).
So yes, this happens. Oddly, it never happens to my 6 foot, 260-pound spouse.
This thread is very interesting as I do not have problems with the guys. The problems I have are with the girls that don't want to be told anything. Not all the girls, but certain outspoken females give me "attitude" at first, until I make it clear that their behavior will not be tolerated. I have even had other girls, that I have had in the past, go up to the "attitude" females and let them know that, "Miss Cindy doesn't play!"
ReplyDeleteI've taught single sex classes many time. I've found that my female only classes have been really awesome. They participate make good comments. And the always seem to enjoy themselves. My favorite kind of class to teach. I've tried to get single sex classes implemented in my department a few times. But the enrollment wouldn't be big enough...
ReplyDeleteAll male classes are good but weird at the same time. The students aren't distracted and they pay attention. But they can be a little juvenile. Heaven forbid you put "T" and "A" on the board anywhere near each other. You'll never get back control of the class. Better to dismiss and start fresh the next time.
Even one person of the opposite sex throughs off the whole dynamic. I mean those classes are still better than a 50/50 split but no where near as awesome as a single sex group.
Hmm, I've had the reverse experiences - the classes that are about 90-95% female [quite common in the sciences] are the ones I dread because at some point I actually have to plan group exercises to make sure that certain female students stay at opposite ends of the room from each other - university profs don't get training on mediation or conflict resolution etc, and I wish we did. The dynamics among the students is akin to that seen on reality shows like America's Next Top Model or The Bachelor or other such crap - catfight, catfight, catfight to establish hierarchy. One colleague actually had to break up a confrontation that had descended to the two protagonists wrestling on the floor pulling each others' ponytails as hard as they could. It was due to what others have noted above - fighting over who was perceived to be the best student. If the top student [all these fools never bother to keep their A+ marks on a test or exam a secret] also happened to be quite attractive with a fashionable wardrobe, the knives really came out. Every behaviour ever described in a newspaper or magazine article about schoolyard bullying by girls was on display in the classroom and in the lab. As my wife, my mother, and my sister (all at 'management' levels in their occupations) have all said to me, a woman's worst enemies in the workplace are not the men, but other women...
ReplyDeleteI'm having a hard time believing your colleague's report as anything but a pornographic fantasy.
ReplyDeleteIt's not that women don't fight, but only a middle-aged man could dream up co-eds rolling around on a lab floor pulling ponytails.
I teach in a field where the female outnumber the males, 6:1. I find that I personally have trouble with some of the females. I have been told that this may be because I appear to be closer to their age than any of my colleagues. I find that they are nasty and catty in class. Many of my evals are good, but from the catty-crew I get all sorts of insults ranging from the pitch of my voice, to the color of my shirt - with all sorts of nastiness in between.
ReplyDeleteIn my program, I do not have as much trouble with the males. Granted, this is a master's level program, so perhaps the males have outgrown this craziness by the time they reach me.
F&T, sorry to burst your porno bubble, but the tale wasn't told to me by my colleague - my grad student heard the yelling and screaming down the hall and ran to see what was going on - my colleague was still standing there in stunned silence, not knowing what to do. And of course his next reaction wasn't well thought out, as by wading in, grabbing them by the arms and pulling them apart he could possibly have been charged with assault.
ReplyDeleteI trust they were both thrown out of the class.
ReplyDeleteThat fight won't have been over grades, even if that's what they said. There was something else going on.
I have never seen that kind of rivalry between female students; ours appear to be quite co-operative with each other. I know that younger female adjuncts frequently get bad evaluations from female students here though.
I have seen that kind of catfight, or female rivalry generally, in movies of course, and a friend of mine who was teaching in the American South described female rivalry between students as very common at her institution. I wonder if there's a wide variation depending on region and local culture.
"Dear College Misery. I never believed the letters I read on your site, until one day I was teaching a lab and there were these two coeds...."
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