Q: What do you think of note-sharing sites? Do you think that if I am offered, and decide to accept, the internship, it could tar my reputation in the eyes of my professors?
Sincerely,
AngryCashier
Friday, May 3, 2013
A Friday Thirsty from A Student Who Cares What We Think! Wot Wot?
Sincerely,
AngryCashier
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Why would you tell your professors about this? Do you tell them about your menstrual cramps and coke-snorting?
ReplyDeleteHey, that's a little bit mean. The kid might put it on his resume that faculty might see when they write recommendation letters. And by "it", I mean the internship information, not the coke itself, although either on a resume would influence my opinion of the student.
DeleteBesides, the student might let the faculty know about cramps and the coke binge if the university considers those as excusable absences.
I'll answer your question seriously: it would depend on the site, but for every one I'm aware of, the answer is emphatically "yes, it would tar, and badly". It could be worse, of course. Working for isanyonedown or whatever that dickhead Craig Britten is currently running would be worse, for example. But if I knew a student of mine had a gig with one of the "note-sharing" sites (and c'mon -- you already know that's not what they do), I would consider the teacher student relationship all but severed and refuse to give anything more than the barest minimum of professional obligation. Certainly I would extend no further trust regarding academic honesty in that student's own classes.
ReplyDeleteAs I tend to foster pretty close mentoring relationships with my students (normal for a small college), I would probably also tear him/her a new asshole.
I wouldn't have a problem with it because I don't care if students come to class, take notes, share them, make money from them, etc. However, I suspect that I'm in the minority for this issue.
ReplyDeleteAn internship can be a valuable opportunity. It's a way to experience what it's like to work for a company without having to fill out that annoying paperwork related to getting paid.
Think about ways you can disguise the experience when talking with faculty. Make a version of your resume that downplays the potentially controversial aspects of the website. Give that version to faculty when you are asking for rec letters.
I'm curious--does anyone know if the content of university lectures (as delivered in real-time by the professor, in class) is covered by copyright?
ReplyDeleteThe reason I'm asking is that these days I pretty much assume my lectures are being recorded (audio, at least, and maybe video) without my knowledge. If there's a dedicated note-taker and the notes will be published (or circulated) in some form, for profit, I should at least be making some fractional money out of it (and the rest should go to the U, not some stupid company.)
I have much less of a problem with this if it is done by/for the students in the class on a limited basis, and nobody is making money out of it.
(OK, I realize the whole concept of copyright protection for intellectual content is sort of quaint, but still, the U has well-paid lawyers who need something to do.)
There is common law and statutes in most states that allow faculty to forbid recordings of, notes taken in, or handouts used in their classes to be sold. (Spoken word is from common law, written word is from statute)
DeleteOur Uni recommends oral statement and a notice on course materials. You can put "Copyright 2013" on any of your documents, you just can't use the registered copyright symbol unless you pay for registering the copyright.
Google "commercial note-taking policy" to see what is done at a variety of institutions.
(I have found on the internet some of my materials being used WITHOUT ATTRIBUTION by a PROFFIE at another institution. A friendly note reminding hir of my legal rights to the material was enough to get removal of some and attribution on others. I don't so much care about the [non-existent] money; I want any potential glory!)
Thanks, Meanie--good to know.
Delete"You can put 'Copyright 2013' on any of your documents, you just can't use the registered copyright symbol unless you pay for registering the copyright."
DeleteThis is incorrect.
In the United States, you may use the copyright symbol (©) whether or not you have chosen to register your work with the Copyright Office. In fact, the Copyright Office's own circular on Copyright Basics (PDF document) makes clear both that registration is not necessary in order for a work to be covered by copyright, and also that providing notice of copyright (for registered or unregistered works) should include the use of the copyright symbol.
As the same publication notes, neither a visible copyright notice nor registration are a condition of copyright; you hold copyright in your own work whether or not you provide a notice of copyright, and whether or not you register your work.
There are advantages, however, to providing a notice and registering your work. Placing a copyright notice on your work makes it impossible for someone infringing your copyright to claim ignorance about its copyright status. They cannot claim that their infringement was an innocent mistake.
Registration is important because, while it does not secure copyright in and of itself, you can only pursue an infringement suit in court if your work has been registered. Also, if you register within three months of publication, or before an act of infringement, your lawsuit can seek statutory damages and attorney fees in additional to actual damages and lost profit. If you don't register, you can only seek actual damages and lost profit.
The bigger problem associated with university lectures is that copyright attaches to works "fixed in any tangible medium of expression." If you are reading your lectures directly from notes, then the notes constitute a tangible medium of expression, and are protected by copyright. If, however, you deliver your lectures on the fly, from memory, without notes, then the problem becomes that you really don't have a reference point if someone takes verbatim notes from your lecture. The issue of recording lectures has been a rather thorny one over the past few years, with some universities implementing policies that forbid the recording of lectures without explicit permission from the instructor. You can see an example of the University of Virginia's policy here.
dainacl
DeleteYou really think that students are sharing their personal notes? I've seen what they share: it's piracy of intellectual property in the form of exams, handouts, and even in-house lab manuals.
ReplyDeleteI went to a college where lots of people interned at the banks that destroyed our economy, so, no, this wouldn't particularly bother me. Job market's shitty and website experience is a good thing. However, I AM worried that your main concern is how your professors will see this, rather than the state of your soul. You might be able to do something morally objectionable day in and day out for a summer without it corrupting you, but not for forty years, or your entire work life. Keep that in mind.
ReplyDeleteThe majority of these sites provide notes for students who skip (er....miss) classes as only one of a lot of things they do, including providing "free" essays on topics common to the class in question, or the subject area. By participating in a business that does this, you are participating in cheating. Yes, damn straight I'd hold it against you. You would be actively participating in the decline of civilization. Stated less dramatically, in encouraging lazy ass students not to write their own stuff, and therefore not to learn how to write or how to think on their own.
ReplyDeleteBah.
My first thought, though, was that you know this already. That's why you are asking. So if what you are really asking is, should you put such a job on your resume, my answer is no.
Notes? You think students take notes in class? My question is, how does this company really make money. Could they, oh I don't know, be offering a way to share other documents that get graded?
ReplyDeleteI'd be bothered by it, in a similar manner to if you went to work for Pirate Bay or Enron. It's not that the core thing being done is wrong, I really don't care if people share notes. It's that the covert task being supported (re-using papers outright, downloading movies, stealing vast sums of money) has some significant problems.
ReplyDeleteBut a better question might be what you plan on doing. You probably don't want to come back to academia, but you won't get much support for entering academia here anyways. Are you getting a valuable skill at this internship? An actually valuable skill, not making coffee? Does the company hire interns, and would you be willing to work for them? What might other future employers think of this company?
In general, I think companies that have poor moral guidance tend to show it in multiple places. Be careful.
The fact that you're asking shows that you know it's wrong already.
ReplyDeleteSome years ago a brilliant student who had excelled in my program and earned my highest respect confessed, in the final week of his senior year, that he had been writing papers for high school students at $50 a pop so he could pay for textbooks. I was so appalled that I kicked him out of my office and refused to write any letters of recommendation for him. What kind of kid sells his soul for $50 a paper?
ReplyDeleteI'd hold this against you, for sure, but if you don't want a letter of recommendation from me, does it matter? If you've lined up an internship at a place like this, it seems you don't really care what others think.
ReplyDeleteThank you all for your insight. I decided to withdraw my application. The issues surrounding one of these sites was a big reason for sure, as was your advice.
ReplyDeleteFor another thing it turns out it was essentially a sales job, where you have to get fellow students to upload X amount of documents each week, and you get paid $10 for every X documents you get students to upload. So, no real skills to learn there that I can use, to answer the question from Alan From Apex. They offer a professional development program for their interns with resume workshops, practice interviews, etc, but I can get that through my university anyways.
What a scam! I'm glad you figured that out before going in to the interview.
DeleteGlad you got to the bottom of the situation before proceeding further; it sounded like you already had a sense that something wasn't right. Those instincts will serve you well; as Alan pointed out, companies that treat those outside their fold unethically rarely treat their employees or "interns" well.
DeleteSadly, positions described as "internships" are increasingly scams, or at least exploitative (in fact, the Labor Department has been cracking down on otherwise-legitimate companies that are exploiting interns for free labor, without offering much in return). I'm glad you're in touch with your university's career services (or similar) office; while I'm sure that there are legitimate internships that aren't advertised through them, that seems like the best place to start when looking (and a good place to go if you have any doubts about an opportunity found elsewhere).
By the way, your reply is nicely written -- well above the norm that I see in many of my own students in terms of sentence structure and voice. I'm sure those skills will serve you well in the work world; hang in there and keep applying for legitimate opportunities; your skills will be appreciated somewhere, I'm sure.
DeleteBravo, Angry, Bravo! I have to think that ANYTHING else you might do, including being an angry cashier (no matter how miserable a Sunday morning you might make for me when I haplessly go into TJMAXX or WALMART or wherever else you might be working) would be better and more useful and less harmful to the world at large and your fellow students in particular than helping said fellow students to cheat on their essays.
DeleteAgain: BRAVO.
The sad thing is, Contingent Cassandra,this was a posting I found on my university's career services website. I have filed a complaint with them regarding the posting.
DeleteGlad you found out the details. "Intern" should be about you learning skills, not the company profiting, whether or not I agree with the business concept.
ReplyDelete