We have a fairly large number of non-traditional students at my institution. I appreciate their motivations - hell, I was a non-trad myself (though not so non-trad as some, if you will). Of course, some days I want to just stuff them all into a rocket and blast them to Mars.
It's not all bad. They catch my cultural references. They tend to have better taste in music. And they have some perspective, some life experience, that can make for good class discussion.
But, sweet lordy, as often as not they are my most obnoxious students.
The older ones, usually around retirement age, often treat the whole class as if it's for their personal benefit, refusing to respect class rules, assignment deadlines, or their (younger) peers. The ones who are clearly looking for a career-switch, usually in their thirties or forties, are almost always ruthless grade-grubbers as well as alarmingly frequent cheaters, frequently convinced that they are absolutely justified in their misdeeds by the fact that they don't like their damned jobs. And nearly all of them uncritically buy into the "customer service" model of teaching, expecting that if they pay their money, they're entitled to a passing grade - a good one, too, if you please.
There's one in particular this semester who's driving me up a wall. I'll call her Rita. Rita is about my age, which is to say that she's old enough to know better. I haven't caught Rita cheating, but I'm almost positive she is - probably subcontracting her papers, based on a comparison between her essays and her answers to essay questions on similar material. She frequently misses class, which I don't personally care about, but somehow thinks its my job to catch her up on the material she's missed, which I do care about. She cannot accept that she bears any fault for low grades, insisting that it's my job to make sure she understands - her favorite refrain is "what do you think I'm paying you for?" Any time the conversation veers toward something that she deems uninteresting or difficult (which is frequently), she laughingly points out that she is "only taking this class so she can get a degree and get a better job" and that she "don't intend to work that hard." (sic)
I have told Rita in no uncertain terms that she is responsible for own performance. I have firmly reprimanded her in class for disruptive or disrespectful comments. I have instructed her that she is paying for an opportunity, not a result. All of this bounces off her as if she were armored against reality, completely shielded against anything she doesn't want to hear.
I complain a lot about the kids. I complain about their stupid, immature decisions and their undercooked brains... but snowflakery is evidently only correlated with, not caused by, youth.
Alas.
Don't fall for the "I'm paying your salary" line. Unless you're running the class out of your garage and the students are each cutting YOU a check each month, it's totally false. The students pay the college. The college pays your salary. If they don't think that they're getting their money's worth from their education, they should take it up with the office of legal council (or, better still, think about how they can actually put sufficient effort in to make it worthwhile, but we all know that's not going to happen).
ReplyDeleteI, for one, like the mature students, though. I have one older lady who sits in on my classes and berates my students when she catches them texting. I wish she was in all my classes. And armed with a metal ruler.
This. If she ever insinuates that she's paying you again, ask her for a check, because nothing's come your way yet from her.
DeleteDemand a raise.
DeleteI have had mostly positive experiences with "returning" students, but the "What am I paying you for?" line sets my teeth on edge. The "logic" of it is warped if grades mean anything at all. What are grades for if not to assess individual levels of diligence (emphasis on "individual"; I'm not wedded to "diligence")? Why not just grade the instructor, and then issue identical grades to all of that instructor's students, all on the assumption that student performance is simply a function of the instructor's performance? Such a setup would violate every conclusion I've drawn about human nature after decades spent on the planet, but isn't that where we're headed, and not just in college? When our older students start to spout that baloney, stick a fork in us.
ReplyDeleteThis.
DeleteMy older students always want me to excuse them from course requirements because they work full-time and have kids, so they "can't be expected" to spend time studying or writing essays.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I've lost count of how many pregnant women have registered for my classes knowing that their due date falls during the week of final exams. Seriously, this has happened *many* times. They all register for class, order their books, and then sit right down and compose an e-mail demanding to know how I plan to accommodate them.
Surly pretty much describes the patterns I'm seeing (including the pregnant students, although, to be fair, registration just started for our fall semester, making our December exam periods c. 8 months away from registration, so it *is* possible, at least at my school, to sign up for classes -- a pretty competitive sport -- without realizing that one will be giving birth long about exam time. This would be especially true for an unplanned pregnancy).
ReplyDeleteI'm seeing more and more 25+ students who are working full time (and/or have families) and seem to consider this something to be "accommodated" by excusing them from work. And then I have the really competent working/parent students who are always on top of things, because, honestly, what I'm asking them to do isn't really that hard, if they'd just follow the steps I've so carefully laid out. Those tend to be people (mostly male) who moved straight into the work world during the tech and/or construction booms, and are now returning to school; women who dropped out of college to raise children sometimes fall in this category, too, but they're becoming less common than they were a decade or two ago. I think it really matters why they didn't go on to college at 18; the ones who've been exercising their competence (and perhaps gaining some maturity) in other realms (work, family, the military) do just fine, while the ones who've been floundering around outside college, and have come back in hopes that it will magically stop the floundering, keep floundering. They might be better off investing in intensive therapy first.
"work" at the end of sentence 1, paragraph 2 above of course applies to course work. One thing my non-traditional and traditional students have in common is that they seem to find it perfectly natural to prioritize work for pay over college work for which they have paid. The idea that college is a consumer good, not an opportunity, is definitely there.
DeleteMany of my students work part-time. I don't mind making accommodations as far as giving them extensions on due dates goes, but I can't understand students who expect me to let them skip an assignment because they're holding down jobs as well. That's not how it works, and they should know that. After all they have day jobs that wouldn't let them get away with that.
DeleteOh, the frustration!!!!
ReplyDeleteBecause I'm on a residential campus far away from any signs of civilization in a tourist area, we don't have as many of the returning students. We have a few, and of the few, they're memorable because of the reasons some of you have cited above: work conflicts with their classes; childcare (and in one case, nipple chaffing) interferes; not knowing how to use technology interferes; not being granted extensions because their typing skills are lacking, etc. I can see why they were likely the first to be 'culled' from the workforce.
Shoot: Sorry, ALL! This was me posting (I was logged in as my SI checking email because the SI claimed an inability to look at a screen for any longer today... Then I switched over to this blog without remembering to log out of the other email). I didn't mean to break a cardinal rule of the blog (posting under multiple names). Sorry, sorry! FWIW, my SI hasn't posted on the blog in over a year (since becoming an affirmed Luddite who refuses to use technology when I can use it for the SI).
DeleteAnd by SI, I mean "SO" (Significant Other). I don't know what an SI would be (Significant Insignificant?).
DeleteI don't often get "nontraditional" students in my classes, but when I do they're the best: come to class, do the work and complain far less than the younger ones. Maybe if more people worked for a few years and didn't start college until their mid-twenties, there wouldn't be as much misery. They're finally mature enough, but then have all the general life issues to deal with, so it's a tradeoff.
ReplyDeleteI agree wholeheartedly! A year or two in foodservice or retail would do society a lot of good!
DeleteSadly, I think the nontrads we get are ones who "flunked out" of food service because they couldn't show up on time or understand how to work even that level of a job.
DeleteBut I do see a marked difference in the population between those who are back b/c they are determined to find their new path, and those who are still wandering the halls of confusion.
CrayonEater, indeed: not to mention it would give them relevant work experience and connections, when they find themselves applying for the same jobs after they graduate; or else just the right amount of motivation, when they see the fate that awaits the less than fully engaged in their studies (or those who choose their majors poorly.)
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